Episode 11
Caveat Council: The False Binary of Emotions vs. Consciousness ~ with Amalia & Quinn
In this conversation, Quinn joins Amalia’s weekly talk show, One Foot on the Roof. It wasn’t evident during the exchange that this conversation would be a Lab Partners episode or that it would be shared at all, so the vibe is cozy, intimate, and even more behind the scenes than usual.
Enjoy this generous access to two friends digging into some potent exploration of:
- The quantum effect of observation: exploring how recording a conversation shifts the field and the desire to blur the line between relaxed intimacy and public sharing
- The value of sharing from and witnessing in the emotional low, the mess, the weeds, the not knowing
- How caveats can function as pre-emptive defenses against being misunderstood, dismissed, or corrected
- The spiral staircase of emotional processing - Is it possible to forget the ground we’ve covered?
- Challenging anti-venting narratives: Venting as connection and release
- Possibilities in what we can offer and what we can receive in inviting each other into our emotional processes and stories
- The false binary of emotions verses consciousness
🧪 This episode's Lab Partners:
- Amalia is a 4/6 Emotional Generator
- Quinn is a 4/6 Emotional Manifestor
You can find more about them and their other lab partners at kelseyrosetort.com/labpartners, including bodygraphs, natal charts, and ways to connect with their work.
Tune into Amalia's show "One Foot on the Roof" at amaliaarts.com/talk-show
💖 New episodes of LAB PARTNERS are released weekly-ish, usually on the Moon’s day.
Intro & Music by Noah Souder-Russo
Transcript
Hello?
Speaker B:Okay. I don't usually think of pre retrograde shadow as, like, being as retrogradey as it's been feeling. It has been feeling that way for me.
Like, in my head, the math of it being like, I'm like, Mercury's slowing down, so it makes sense. But also Mercury's been hanging out with Mars, and I think that's a lot of what is. Is happening.
I'm curious what other, like, astrologers are saying, but it's definitely feeling like what the actual but. Hello?
Speaker A:Hi. I'm trying to figure out where to put my phone right now.
Speaker B:So you had to do it on your phone? Is that what happened?
Speaker A:Yeah. So we still have this, like, very slowly moving bar on installing updates on Zoom. So I feel the pre retrograde shadow.
Speaker B:Yeah, I believe it. Well, yeah, whatever. Hop over to your computer if you feel like at any time. I am. Personally, I'm like, do I want to be lying down in bed right now?
Maybe.
Speaker A:Should we lie down?
Speaker B:Should we lie down? Yeah, let's do it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I have my. Okay, wait. I need. I have. I want to take my cards, though.
Speaker A:Be happy to lie down.
Speaker B:Great. Let's lie down.
Speaker A:You light a candle and lie down, baby.
Speaker B:Let's do it. Set the mood.
Speaker A:Got my go right back to the therapy.
Speaker B:Yeah, perfect for therapy. I had therapy today, too. I also cried today.
Speaker A:Oh, I cried for an hour.
Speaker B:Good try.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think so. I would assume so.
Speaker B:One can only know. We'll find out.
Speaker A:It was not. Not a bad. No. Bad cry.
Speaker B:I got you. Do you like your therapist?
Speaker A:You like my therapist? I've also been with them for, like. Like nine years or something.
Speaker B:That's amazing. That's so cool.
Speaker A:Never had that before. Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes I think about, like, people talk about how maybe you shouldn't stay with the same therapist for a long time.
I've heard people talk about this. I've heard people not talk about this.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm like, that's just a crazy universalism.
It's like, you know, whether you want to be with a therapist for that long or not, that feels completely irrelevant out of context to, like, you and the therapist and your relationship and your life.
Speaker A:Right. Like, I feel like they really know me at this point. And that has pros and cons to it, I think.
I think that, like, the pros are so much context and so much like, feeling seen and understood. And the.
The cons can maybe sometimes be that sort of feeling like, oh, you know, all of these, like, older parts of me that like, weren't so healthy or aligned or whatever. And do I feel like we can move past that, you know?
Speaker B:Totally. Like, you need a new thing to like, reflect the new you.
Speaker A:Yeah. Yeah, I know. I'm not lying down yet. Sorry.
Speaker B:You should apologize for that. For sure.
Speaker A:I know. I owe a big apology for it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Yes. Yes. This is perfect.
Speaker A:And I'm on my mountains pillow for our mountains environment.
Speaker B:Gorgeous, cool mountains hang. Okay, so I do have several ideas for like places to go, but I'm feeling into like the difference between. It's like me and you are hanging out.
We've done that so many times. But like, it's different now because there's like the label of this container and so I'm like feeling into what? It feels different.
Like I'm like my hands feel kind of tingly and like I feel like it's like I feel the visibility or something of it. Like it just feels different. Does it feel different to you?
Speaker A:You mean like you feel that your visibility is bigger?
Speaker B:Something like my field is wider than me and you and I'm like. I think that's a lot of what this space is for for me is to like, just play with like visibility and channel and like. What, What's. I'm not gonna. Not.
I'm gonna abandon that sentence for a moment.
Speaker A:Everything changed.
Speaker B:Everything changed. I, I. I've been thinking a lot.
I mean, some allowed with, with like full collaboratory, but like, I've been thinking a lot about like wanting like I'm like craving lab partners episodes that feel more like true reality tv. Whatever. True. First of all, I don't watch reality tv.
Second of all, that's not real life, but I, and I know that, but I like, I want it to like actually be like behind the scenes footage of like a real hang. But I'm like aware that it's like quantum physics. Like being watched does change the thing. And I think I'm just like, I'm interested in that.
I'm like interested in playing with that. And like the quantum of it all is like real. But I also am like there are moments, I think in the podcast episodes I've recorded.
I've been on three and like four, including Tollens.
And like there have been moments and, and I've like done other things in the past that are, are whatever like a similar body experience of being like, I'm in flow and I'm still aware of like, it's like. Yeah, okay, what am I trying to say? I'm Trying to say, like, I'm craving an experience of like, this is both.
I'm trying to blur the line between being perceived and being relaxed or something.
Like, being perceived being like, like projecting out in this way, but still feeling like I'm like, how close to like lying in my bed full relaxed, like we're just hanging out. Can I actually get while knowing that something will be public? And like, this is different because it's like, it's not gonna be that public.
But I do wanna use this space to play with that. And like, one of the things is format.
Like, I do think, like, I don't like, I just started like this week and last just collaboratory, but I'm like, both weeks Seuss has been like, let me know when I can come. And like next week my friend is going to be with me. And I'm like, I am also interested in like bringing in other people.
And it's like, is it live streaming? Like, is it like, what's the format? So there's those questions too.
But anyway, this is like all the like, like that's in this topic and it feels like I'm curious if you want to talk about like.
Yeah, I mean, like last week I talked about dropping in, which is like, it's not unrelated, but I wasn't able to like listen and like completely follow the conversation you started in the group text. But I know that you had your. You inquiries self inquiries about voice stuff. So I like, I'm wondering if that is related to this.
But anyway, now I'm done talking. Go for it.
Speaker A:I was forming a thought and then I got distracted by allowing a cat up on my lap. So let me just for sure back to that reality.
So, okay, I think that, yes, I'm resonating with what you're saying and I even want to throw in the concept of like a little bit more like messiness. I was thinking about, I was thinking on a. On my drive last night home, which took an entire traffic jam, construction accident, length of time.
It was a very long drive.
And I was thinking about how to talk about things that I've learned that I'm still learning without sounding like I know and like, you know, some of the four, six episode that we did was like that. And I know I'm about to record an episode with Kelsey sometime this week about victimy stuff.
And it's like, I don't know, sometimes it's almost like I feel self conscious about sounding like maybe like pompous or something or sounding like I know stuff that I don't know, but that I'm just trying to know or trying on or whatever. And so, yeah, like, this doesn't directly speak to what you were saying, but there's.
There's this amount of, like, more in the weeds that I want to get into and I'm trying to figure out how to talk about it. End of sentence.
Speaker B:Like a quality of in the weeds that you're wanting to access.
Speaker A:Yeah. Like broadcasting from the low of the wave, if you will. Broadcasting from the victim, broadcasting from the not self.
Because it's not where I want to broadcast from. Right. I'd rather broadcast from the medium or the high of the wave. I'd rather broadcast from a place where I can access more of my knowing.
But that's the thing is that, like, when I'm in the low, I don't have as much access to that.
Speaker B:You want to broadcast from your not knowing?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What are you trying to experience through doing that?
Speaker A:It's just what I could use a lot of the time personally, when listening to anybody, especially, you know, earlier in Human Design and. And now too, but really, especially earlier on wanting not being in an aligned place and.
And, you know, hearing about, like, oh, what it's like to be in aligned place, but like, what about what is it like to be in a not aligned place and know about the aligned place but, like, have these roadblocks and struggles getting to the aligned place. Like, it's almost like a more accessible thing, a more like, familiar thing, a more relevant thing in some ways.
You know, talking about the problem when you're not currently feeling the problem comes out very different.
Speaker B:That's so real. I feel like I've. There's a synchronicity, like, that's just like, feels in the field for me right now. I feel like I've heard.
I just sent Kelsey a few notes this morning. It felt like that was.
I don't know how long you listened to the Manifestor episode before you, like, while you were in transit, but I listen, I finished listening to that this morning and then I was like, noting Kelsey about, like, just like the. The part that felt really, like, alive, like, just like resonant for me. And like, I've talked.
I feel like we talked about this on the 4, 6 episode and like, I think we talked about this, Noah and Kelsey and I on the Alchemy episode. But like, this feeling of, like, giving voice to more of the parts than, like, and like, then.
Then the, like, detached knowing, like, whatever, like, design teacher parts, you know, like, and we're always, like, so full of caveats, you know, I think, like.
And I am, like, in this, like, I said this to her, but I'm like, I am, like, wanting to, like, start some kind of, like, council of the caveat lists, like, fucking accountability thing. Like, just as an experiment. I want to spend a week.
Like, you can tell me if you're in, but I'm like, I kind of want to spend a week just being like, what if I didn't use any caveats this week? And, like, what if it was even. Just only in the converse?
Like, I'm having a lot of conversations these days with all of you, and I'm like, what if it was only with us? Because it feels safe to just start small, you know? But I'm like, even, like, all of those moments feel like tiny denials still of the.
The part that, like, just is angry, period, you know? And like, every time that I'm like, I know that this, I know that that, and I know that this. But this, it's like, why but this.
It's like, that part has wisdom. Like, that part is real. Like, that is a huge part of being human. And, like, that's why I came here to be in this body.
Like, this part of me that, like, is all knowing. Like, Piscean, hello, buddy biscuit maker. Yeah, it's just like the. The all knowing, detached whatever part, like, gets to be that for eternity.
Like, I came here to be angry, like, you know, and, like, stuck and, like, feel like a victim. And, you know, like, my experience here feels better when I know that the.
That I don't always feel like a victim and that, you know, but I think I'm just really, like. Yeah, I just. I feel that it's like, it's not just me. Like, I feel it in the field. This.
This thing of being, like, it, like, isn't fun to be completely lost and, like, blended with the part that, like, feels like a victim or, like, feels sad or feels angry or feels stuck. But it's. It also isn't very fun to, like, be completely blended with the part that's, like, all knowing and, like, detached and on the. Whatever.
Like, you know.
Speaker A:Yeah. This is making me think of dialectics, first of all, but also, like, very much so thinking about open Ashna or undefined.
Speaker B:Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker A:I'm wanting to, like, intellectualize it and, like, the. All of the, you know, especially the therapy speak that you and I have.
Speaker B:Mm.
Speaker A:Just from our experiences in. In the world of therapy on many different ends of it. You know, for you and me. But the. The caveats are like, stories, right?
The caveats are storytelling that we're doing for ourselves, for whatever reason we think we need it.
Speaker B:Well, and protection, I think, like, it feels like I already know. I mean, and that's annoying too, because I'm like. Like, I don't know. For me, I think a lot of it is, like, protection against.
Okay, let me try to follow this through. Why do I give you a caveat? I think I give you a cab. I mean, it's. It's different for different people.
But I think I give it to you because I want you to know that I know the, like, detached, like, knowing, wise response. Like, I already know that part. And why do I want you to know that I know that?
I mean, the thing that I first went to, I think there are multiple reasons, but, like, the thing that I first went to was, like, this protection. Because I'm like, I don't want that to be your response to my anger, you know? And, like, I think there's from. You're not following that.
Speaker A:I am. I just want to know more about that particular thought.
Speaker B:Okay. Well, I, like, feel like there's this fear that I'm gonna be like, this. I'm a victim. Like, this is so hard. Like, I'm so sick of this.
Like, this is unfair. Like, whatever. These, like, kind of baby, like.
Or like, things I feel like I. I label baby, even though I think they're just really human, you know, like, emotions just like that are fully in the experience of that moment in the wave, or stories that are attached to that. Because that's part of being. Having emotions is also stories.
And, like, I think that there's part of me that's afraid that I'm gonna give you that and you're gonna respond to me with, like, well, you know, like, it is all true. Like, you know, like, I think whatever. Like, I don't want my emotions to be met with your, like, detached wise. Like, this is the way to view it.
Like, I want you to be like, yeah, fuck that. Like, I want you to be with my emotion.
And I think I'm like, yeah, so used to being dismissed for being emotional and, like, so used to people trying to be like, that's whatever. Like, let me give you the, like, slap on the, like, cliche or, like, whatever, you know, like, there's so much resistance to being with the emotion.
And so I think that's from a lot of lived experience for me, and I think I do that. And so I Think I'm also projecting in that I'm like, I definitely do that to myself. And because I do it to myself, I know that I do it to others.
And the thing that I referenced in the 46 episode was a very specific moment in a very specific context where part of what I worked through and I just am really holding this with me now at the farm in Washington, was my relationship with this one person and our relationship to this. The leader of my. The cohort, the other cohort that I'm in. And like, my friend had a really difficult experience.
And I think I responded all year with a lot of like, I'm viewing from an unbinary. Like, unlike, I don't think this per. You know, like, just ways that, like, this isn't about me regretting what I did.
I actually think that there was like a lot of nuance and like, understanding I have for myself.
And I think I just like, really am coming away way from that conversation with like, I responded in a way that like, like, I think the truest response. Now, I know this is going too deep into this particular example, but are you with me? Should we keep going?
Speaker A:Not too deep. Dive.
Speaker B:Okay. I. Yeah, maybe. Honestly. Okay, wait, give me a second to like, gather. Okay. I do want to finish the first thing and then dive. The.
The thing that I just want to say is, like, I think that I respond and to myself and others often with this, like, you're giving me an emotion or like a particular uncomfortable experience, especially one that I feel like that's babyish or like, when I feel like someone's like a kind of like, unable to be an adult with themself. This is also something that I've really realized recently. Like, it activates my, like, child, like, caretaker thing.
And I am like, oh my God, I gotta take care of you now. Like, I have to be responsible. And then I'm like, I don't want to be responsible. Here's a sixth line.
Like, placating, like, detached, like, victim consciousness thing, you know, and. And like, it's actually like, that's my discomfort with them being in their emotion experience that they're in.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And often it's my discomfort with my own being in the emotion story that I'm in. And because that's all there, of course I'm also afraid of experiencing that when I am in my emotion. It's like, I'm afraid.
I don't want to experience it for myself and I don't want to experience it from you. I want to be like, this Sucks. And I want you to be like, that fucking sucks.
You know, like, in a way, I'm like, playing these days with venting more because I'm like, oh, I, like, just need to vent about my roommate when I'm annoyed at him. And, like, instead of being like, I know that this is because of La La la.
It's like, just like, vent like a human being, like, and be like, this sucks and I'm annoyed and that's okay.
Speaker A:You know, I stopped myself from doing it too. And it's like, maybe what if we tried to not.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm like, going back around and being like, there is a version of, like, complaining about other people and, like, being in victim consciousness that, like, that sucks. Like, it does suck. It sucks to be around and it sucks to be in for me.
But I do feel a sense of, like, I don't think I agree with what I want to say, but what wants to be said is, like, I feel like I'm past that in a certain way. That, like, now to go back to venting, it's going to be a different thing. Like, and I maybe just need to experience it to learn.
But it feels a little bit like I've crossed to a side that I can't forget. Like, I don't think I'm gonna forget what it feels like to know that, like, there are more emotions than one emotion at a time.
Like, I don't think I'm gonna forget that. Like, I don't actually believe in bad people. I don't actually believe. I mean, I never. That one I never believed in.
But, like, you know, like, I think I'm not. Like, I'm not gonna forget that. Like, my roommate doesn't suck. Like, I feel a little bit like. Like, can I.
Like, I think there's this, like, fear of forgetting or something that's also there for me of, like, okay, I got to this side. It's much better than being inside of victim consciousness. I have to remember. I have to remember. I have to remember. And I am a little bit now.
Like, I'm like, I want to experience, like, trying the thing again. Venting, being mad at people. Like, being like, this person is doing the wrong thing.
Like, I want to try to experience that from the angle of all that I've worked through. And I think it might be different than the last time I was. When I. From when I was inside victim consciousness. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker A:Yeah. The spiral staircase.
Speaker B:Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just. I don't know if we actually Go back down. Like, I don't know if it goes down, you know?
Speaker A:No, I don't think it can, because everything happens, everything keeps happening, and it doesn't stop and, like, it doesn't go back down.
But we are, like, looking, you know, to the left or to the right or to the east or to the west and seeing those things that were out the window in those directions before. And, like, we're seeing them again, we're experiencing them again, and inevitably they're different. Right.
Even though they might bring up the same themes. But, yeah, I don't think, you know, I don't think that. That there's no, like, static of, like, victim consciousness. Right?
Like, you're not, like, in it or not in it. Like, it's not like a binary of, like, it's always all the time, but it's like. I don't know.
I think this will end up being, like, explored probably in the Victim Me episode. I think that it's. It's about, like, how. How we're oriented to it, right?
Like, do you know you're on the spiral staircase or are you, like, not aware of it? But I don't even know. I mean, that almost is going back to the very first piece of the conversation about when you're in the low.
You don't even quite know how to access, like, that stuff that, you know. In the high. Yeah, yeah, really? In the low, on the spiral staircase, do you even know you're on it?
Speaker B:Right. There is.
I mean, the thing I'm thinking about is, like, in the Jewish, like, wheel of the year, which is also, like, I think, a foil of, like, the pagan and like many other, like, cultures experience of time. But I think there's this thing I learned from my teacher who teaches the other cohort of, like, every high holiday season, like, the.
The high holidays begin in Tishrei, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot. Those are the high holidays, right?
But there's this entire month that's the last month of the year before Elul, which is really when the season begins. And that season, it's interesting. It kind of feels like in some ways it's the shadow period of the retrograde.
And there really is a mimicry of that because in some ways, the high holiday season is a bit of a retrograde. It's like we're rehearsing our own death. We are going back. The veil is incredibly thin. There is this retrograde feeling of we are in deep review.
And Elul, like, every month has like, so many themes associated with it and Kabbalah and so many, like, so much richness in it. And Elul is, like, all about preparing for the high holiday season.
So it's like you're already in the reflection and the review of what you will be doing when you're really in the reflection and the review. And, like, there's. Yeah, like, so much of what we do in a little. Like, we. We blow the shofar every morning.
You know, there's like, so much ritual and routine in, like, getting your body ready to, like, fully return. And a lot of that is remembering. Like, a lot of that is like. And the thing that Elon said that just, like, was really coming through for me.
And what you were just saying was, like, we have this time built into the year to remember, because also, we're supposed to get lost, you know? Like, it's like, does by design. We're supposed to get lost in the sauce. Like, we're doing so much learning there.
But in those moments, it doesn't feel like you're learning. Like, in those moments, you're like. And like.
Because there's another way of thinking about it that's like the expansion and the contraction, you know, and the. Like, it's also like, the integration and then, like, the immersion.
Like, and I think it's like, you have to get immersed in the Maya and then you pull out and then you make sense. Like, you, You. You. Like, there's, like, you go on a mushroom trip, right?
Like, during the mushroom trip, you're not trying to figure out what the mushroom trip was about. Like, you're just in it. Like, and then there's integration afterwards.
Like, by design, there's gonna be a time where you're like, what the was that all about? But, like, you have to release that and actually let go of the.
Trying to figure out what it's about, like, to actually experience the thing that is then going to give you wisdom later. And it all feels connected to me. Like, this spiral staircase, the emotional lows.
Like, I'm like, if we don't let ourselves actually just fully be in the emotional lows and also received as being in the emotional lows, then we don't get to immerse in the experience that then the emotional highs and the, like, integration can then help us understand what was it there. We have to have the thing to then look at the thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah. That's, like, deeply resonant right now. Yeah. My therapist was comparing a very similar feeling. Like, I'm. I'm.
I'm having a lot of big feelings right now. And a lot of the times when I'm having big feelings, I'm like, what do I do? What do I do with them? What am I supposed to do?
There's got to be something to do because there's like, you know, sometimes like this pressure about it or this and pressure, internal pressure, like, like the pressure of like feeling like you're going to explode right when you're having a lot of big feelings or sometimes feeling like you're going to like implode or like that you're going to emulate. And my therapist was drawing this beautiful picture for me about my aurora chasing, looking for the northern lights.
And they asked, they were like, well, what happens when you're looking at the aurora? Can you look at your emotional experience as the aurora borealis?
And you know, I do all of this, like looking at the space weather and looking at numbers and looking at conditions and assessing all of these things that have to line up, including my ability to get somewhere dark, including my camera being charged.
Like all of these little things have to work out in this way that's like very planning oriented and maybe a similar way that the, you plan for the high holiday season and then the aurora, sometimes it shows up, sometimes it doesn't.
But when it shows up, I'm not thinking about the numbers, I'm not looking at the numbers, I'm not thinking about later and like how pictures are gonna come out really. I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the sky with an absurd sense of wonder. And isn't having emotions such a phenomenon? Isn't it?
Such a beautiful natural experience is looking at the aurora. So I'm just settling into that thought that I was just given in the past two hours.
Speaker B:That's so beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know how it quite fits in for me yet, but it seems like the thing to say.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a gorgeous visual of what we're talking about. And for you, like such an embodied experience of it.
Speaker A:These embodied experiences.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So can we look at the thing without putting words to it? Can we look at the emotions without putting words to them? Can we, can we look at the grief without putting words to them? To it?
Can we look at the aurora without putting words to it? Can we just like let it exist?
Can I, that's, here's, here's where I'll get like the, the, the messy reality show question of can I experience my big emotions without putting words to them? I don't know. Right now I don't feel like I can, but it's. I don't even. Is it even correct to be like, I'm driven to understand why? Like that.
Because that's still so analytic. Right. It's like, can you just shut up and look? Can you just look?
Speaker B:I'm interested in the, like, the part that's, like. Without putting words. Like, what is the meaning for you of putting words to that part of the experience? Like, what's it like right now?
What's it going like right now when you try to put words to your emotional lows or your big emotions?
Speaker A:Like, I want to bring logic to a place that needs no logic. I want to. And there's, like, this element of, like, determinism about it. Like. Like. Like outcome. Like, what are my big feelings mean? And there's.
I think I felt, like, helplessness about it too, because it's like, whoa. I. When big feelings come up, sometimes you're not expecting them. Right.
And it's like, I want to grasp for an understanding so that I feel a little bit more in control.
Speaker B:So it's those kind of words that you're talking about. Logic, reasoning, like, talking yourself out of the emotion.
Speaker A:Kind of not even talking out of the emotion, just talking with it and not letting it be. Just, like, chilling there, like, making it. Wanting to. Wanting to. To. I'm not sure yet.
Speaker B:Yeah. Look at you practicing. I see you.
Speaker A:It's a little scary.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:For sure.
Speaker A:So beautiful to be vulnerable.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I might start crying.
Speaker B:Heard.
Speaker A:I can't wait.
Speaker B:Yeah. You had texted that you were having, like, thoughts and feelings.
I don't remember whether that was today or yesterday, but I'm here for it if you want to share. But I'm also here if you're like, no. The whole point is I don't want to put words yet.
Speaker A:Really. I'm having a lot of, like, thoughts and feelings about collaboratory and how much this feels like. I mean, I don't.
I don't know that I can list many other places where I've felt so seen. I'm, like, loved while being. Seeing. Seen at the same time.
Speaker B:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A:I think especially after being in person with Noah, it just, like, that brought an embodied experience to collaboratory in this different way where it's just. It really bonked me on the head about just how very special this is. Thing that we all have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:The ways that we are. The ways that there's no place to hide in collaboratory.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:Quote Kelsey. I think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, like, how that doesn't feel like a threat. The fact that there's no place to hide it doesn't feel like a threat to ning experience. It feels like the most liberating experience.
And liberation can feel scary.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Especially like, if we're not used to it on a regular basis. Like, I can identify, like, brief moments in my life of similar feelings of connectedness or feeling seen or feeling free to, like, really just be.
But, you know, we all keep bringing up the word embodied, like, all over the place.
I was listening to Nick and Kelsey's open head podcast and I'm having an open head right now and I don't know how to finish my train of thought, but I'm sure that anything that will come back will come back.
Speaker B:Yeah, totally. And I'm so, like, happy that you brought in the feels around collaboratory because I. Yeah, I feel it too.
And I want to get into it, but I'm going to pause for a second. Yeah, I've felt this like, can't hide thing a lot.
And I just like, I do feel the way where it's like once the container opens, it's like now everything is related to the container or something that's not really the words. I mean, but I don't feel like clarifying right now. Like, I. It's just like so much has come up for me.
And it was interesting because it was like, as I was descending into my like, high holiday portal, like, collaboratory was so present for me. I was freaking out about not being able to go to meetings and like, not being able to be as present and like, missing out.
And like, I was like, all these things are taking off just as I'm like, like leaving. I'm afraid of this, I'm afraid of that. I'm afraid of being excluded. I'm afraid of missing.
Like, I just, you know, just a couple days ago, it was like, you know, so many different little like, triads or like four person convos that there's like voice messages to catch up on and stuff. And I'm like, oh my God, this is it, this is it. But I'm like, okay.
My energy actually doesn't want to listen to any of these things, but there's like this like, anxiety of being like, if I don't, I'm not part of the group and like, then I miss out and I'm like, so afraid that, like, these two people are closer than I am to this person or, like, than I am to the three. Like three or whatever.
Like, and I like, there's Just, like, all this stuff, you know, And I'm so aware that, like, that stuff isn't actually collaboratory stuff. Like, that's what I mean by once the container starts.
But, like, now this is the projection screen for me, especially as a person with, like, so much group shit. Like, I just, I talk about myself as, like, I know I was put on this earth to, to do this, and, like, Like, I'm here for groups. I'm here for family.
I am here for. For groups, you know, and groups have hurt me so much.
And so, like, those two things together are like, this is my, you know, and that's not about collaboratory, but, like, I'm like, now it's happening here, and so there's, like, a particular. Yeah, there's just particular work for me to do in this context, and I think it's anxiety. Like, there's anxiety there. And.
But there's also just, like, such a practice field for me to be, like, just, like, here's like, just, like, let's test my limits. Let's, like, push my own boundaries and, like, safe ways and call the bluffs, I think is really what I mean.
Like, it's like, okay, yeah, I feel like I am going to be excluded.
I feel like I'm not as close to you as this person is, and I'm still going to listen to my own energy, and I'm going to tell you about what's happening as it's happening. Like, I'm going to, like, do all of those things and just, like, see what happens, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah. And it's like, it's vulnerable. And as a result, like, you're saying it's like, I'm, I'm seen.
I know I'm being seen because I'm, like, putting myself out there to be seen.
And, and, like, these are people who want to see and, like, have clear vision, and it's, like, a beautiful and terrifying experience to be in that kind of container.
Speaker A:Yeah. Yeah.
You're not alone in that, like, any of those feelings of feeling, like, I, I'm very behind on listening to podcast episodes, and I feel sometimes, like, guilty about it. Sometimes I feel like I'm not doing good enough at keeping up, or I feel like, I don't know all kinds of ways.
And then I, too, like, I get these, like, I get little pings of jealousy about people having conversations and the groups of, like, two, three, and four and, like, feeling, like, left out, I, I, I go through that, too, in, In a way where I feel so much safer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I know that I'm not actually being excluded.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm just, like, the energy is just doing what it does, and in a way that everyone's intentionality is so strong.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:So invested in the full group that even when conversations are just between two or three people, or even when, you know, stuff is traveling for two weeks, or even when you're traveling for. I'm not even sure how many weeks you traveled for, but even, like, when somebody's not there, it's still about the eight of us.
Speaker B:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A:Even when you and I are having a collab, separate Amalia Quinn hangout.
Speaker B:Yeah. It's still about the eight of us.
Speaker A:Yeah. I mean, like, it. It's. It's maybe not in that moment because.
Speaker B:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A:Talking about kind of whatever other things, but it's like, it doesn't. Nothing takes away from the strength of the eight of us. But I, like, I get it, and I. I do.
I feel big fomo and, like, definitely went through this with the. With the manifestor episode as we all got.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I was like, oh. Like, you know, with like, all of the, like, caveat, Caveat, caveat. All the love in the world caveat. Like, I know I'm not left out. Caveat.
Speaker B:Like, get to the things. Get to the thing.
Speaker A:Like, I'm still not there in that conversation with the three other manifestors.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there's a thing about that that hurts no matter how many caveats there are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And no matter how quickly I was actually able to, like, be fine with it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I understood, like, one, the conversation that we're all supposed to have is going to happen anyway. Two, there is a lot of, like. And I haven't.
I have not finished listening, and I was very, like, packing and trying to leave and almost missed my plane, but I didn't. Who can keep track of time? You know what I mean? But, like, yeah, it's. It's still there.
And I think that if I'm following this, ignoring the caveats, like, I'm just gonna, like, be able to. To sit here and say, like, that feeling sucks. That feeling sucks.
Speaker B:Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And to your point, like, it goes so much deeper than just, like, the.
The zigzag of how you and I are relating, but it's like the zigzag of how you're relating with aspects of your childhood that somebody's bringing this piece out in you where you're like, caretake, hide, must hide. Right. Like, something like that. The ways that, like, we're all bouncing all over time and space. All the time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But still the feeling sucks, right?
Speaker B:Like, totally. Totally.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm like, I'm big into venting.
I've heard, like, I've heard two people recently espouse beliefs about, like, venting being, like, a waste of time and, like, a drain on the person who has to listen to it and shit. And I'm just like, no, like, venting is. First of all, I like to hear it when the other person is venting. To me, it's just, like, stimuli. It's like.
And it's like letting them be mad or something. And I really like to vent as well.
Speaker B:Comforting because. Exactly. Because you're like, oh, yeah, emotions. Like, oh, yeah, humans. We're fucking humans, and those emotions are fucking real.
And, like, we don't get to graduate from that just because we've, like, you know, whatever. Like, we are, like, conscious, you know. That's not the point. I don't think.
I don't think we're supposed to graduate from, like, feeling pissed off at people and, like, feeling victimized and feeling, like, shitty about things sometimes or feeling great about them.
Speaker A:You're thinking about caveats are like a proactive protection.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a pre.
Speaker A:Protection, which I'm bouncing off of you saying that. That they're like a form of protection from earlier.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's like, I don't want you to think that I'm mad at you because I'm, like, venting about something.
I don't want you to think that I'm upset that I wasn't in the manifesto conversation because, like, well, there's an aspect of me that is upset that has nothing to do with you. And I think that we live in this world where the assumption is always direct. Yeah, boy, does that speak into victim consciousness too. Right?
But, like, the assumption is directly that, like, I can't have a feeling of, like, a. A challenging feeling or, like, a low on the wave feeling without, like, I don't want to hit your wave.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I'm just, like, having my wave, but I don't really want to. Like, I don't want you to think that you're a part of the. Whatever it is. Like, I want, you know, and that's the.
The joy of collaboratory is that we, like, have all this trust. All this trust, nowhere to hide.
Speaker B:All the trust, nowhere to hide.
Speaker A:No way back, which is a big theme line in my rave project, is no way back.
Speaker B:Oh, wow, that's funny, because that's, like, what came through when I was like, I don't think we can go backwards. No way back. Wow.
Speaker A:I got goosebumps.
Speaker B:Yeah. Okay, so we're on the right track.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah. I'm, like, kind of curious to follow the thread that I was like, wait, I'm gonna finish this thought.
Because I'm, like, wondering if it's the same thing or if there's something new there.
Speaker A:Bring it back.
Speaker B:Yeah, I. I, like, basically, I think that what happened there or so far, what I think happened is, like, friend was having big feelings about person, and I all year could feel friend being like, come join me here and, like, witness me in this and, like, validate that I'm right in this feeling. And I was just like, I don't feel that way. I, like, super want to validate you and, like, I don't want you to feel alone in this experience.
And I, like, believe you. Like, I really believe you that you're having this experience. And, like, this is true. And I also believe in, like, many realities. And I.
So I'm like, I don't. That's not my reality.
And, like, my reality is, like, really rooted in, like, not, like, I genuinely don't believe in, like, right and wrong and, like, this person doing something wrong. Like, I feel like this person is doing things that are messy and chaotic and, like, having big impact. But, like, I just.
Like, it's not satisfying for me to slap on it. Like, this is wrong. Not because I think that viewpoint is wrong either. Like, I also don't think it's wrong to say things are wrong.
It just doesn't resonate with me. And so I was like, I don't. Like, like, it didn't. It felt inauthentic to me because I'm like, it doesn't feel like.
It's not a thing that I'm like, 100 yes. Like, but I have all year been like, what is the 100 yes thing that I believe? Like, I don't know.
And I think what became true or, like, what I understand now more after talking with friend and finally getting to, I think a deeper moment of overlap is that, like, they felt like I was responding to their. Like, these things are wrong. This thing is happening with, like, neutrality and, like, kind of like a. Like, I don't see it.
And, like, reminder six line wisdom.
Like, and they were like, I want you to trust that, like, I know those things, and I still need to, like, be at the point I'm at and, like, feel the ways I do. And, like, I want to feel, like, you're like, there with me. And I think like, in the specific conversation I still am like, curious about like, what.
What could I have actually done to make you feel that way more?
But I think energetically I understand that I'm like, I was resisting joining because I was like, I can't be in another group, in another place in my life and be like, this person, this person is wrong. Like, I'm so afraid of like having this experience.
I think it gets complicated because I also have like a lot of like trauma around being a scapegoat and like being exiled. And so I'm also like a feeling of blaming one person, even if it's like a leader feels really bad to me.
Like, I'm like, I can't like, I am like triggered honestly, like, and it feels like really against my like, ethos of being like, I. I'm really sick suspicious of when one person gets blamed, even when it is the later.
Because I'm like, I know the way that, that like, is usually serving a purpose and a function, but I think in this group it was really complicated to be like, okay, but like, actually she is making so many fcking, like, glaring mistakes and like causing harm in ways. And so it's just, it was just complicated for me all year to be like, what do I make of this? Like, I don't believe in exiling.
I don't believe in like, it's all your fault. And also I'm like, I, you know, like, yeah, they're just.
It has been such a complicated experience of being like, it's challenged me in so many deep, important ways. And I think the part that came up with this friend was like, yeah, I felt this fear.
I touched in recently to the fear that was present with me all along of being like, I can't get that close to your experience. I won't let myself join you in the way that I think you would feel validated by me joining you.
Because I cannot spend another moment in this moment in a group feeling like one person is like, with us and like one person is like scapegoating and like one person is like causing harm in this way. Like, I just like can't, like, I couldn't get close to it because I didn't want to feel that way.
And I think in a more pulled out analysis of the situation, I think the reason I brought it up in our conversation right now is because I'm like, that's the kind of, that makes me want to caveat things because, like, you know, like, I'M like, I don't want someone to respond to me the way that I think my friend felt. I responded to them. Like, why did I respond that way? Because I didn't want to get that close to their emotions for my own reasons is the point.
And I think that's often people's experience with emotion is like, I think I. I wonder if it's like, especially with undefined solar plexus, but I think emotion, like, true emotion is so true and like, it's so visceral and it, like, is so connective. And like, I think people often don't want to be connected to the things it connects them to.
And, like, I didn't want to be connected to all the memories that my friend's emotions were connecting me to. And so I was like, I need distance from that. And then they felt that distance. And, you know, like, I'm like, would caveats have helped?
No, because in the end, I knew that they were really joined with the experience that they were having, and I could feel that, and that was why I was pushing back on it. But roundabout.
I think what I'm saying is, like, yeah, I just think there's like, I, I. Yeah, I think there's this way that I was like, I, like, what I want. What I want, what feels good to me is to be joined. Like, to be, like, deeply witnessed and, like, believed and. And joined in a way.
Like, joined, not in like a. You have to feel this emotion with me, but, like, I want you to, like, have space to, like, like, really, like, I don't know.
Do you know what, like, what do I mean by join? Do you know what I mean by join?
Speaker A:Yeah. Let me feel into. Well, it's kind of like.
I'm not sure if this answers your question, but when someone wants you to see something through their exact eyes without recognizing that that's not possible, AKA it brings things up for you, then that's hard because that's already sort of putting you into a little corner where you're a different person.
You have a fully different set of life experiences and lenses that you look at things through, and you're sort of being asked to put those down in favor of the one that they want you to pick up.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I mean, I think what's true, what feels true to me now is that I'm like, if I were fully conscious of all of this and, and owning it in a way that I wish that I could have, then I think the honest thing I could have said to them, which May have still been unsatisfactory, but would have been more authentic is like, I see where you're at, and I actually feel kind of threatened by it. And I'm like, I'm not. I don't have the capacity to do what I know I'm capable of doing.
And, like, fully joining you, whatever this word is, joining is like, not landing right. But I'm like, there's something there. Which maybe that's for a later conversation, but I am like, what is this joining business?
Like, there's something there of, like, true resonance. Like, when you resonate with someone and you. And you can feel when someone's really resonating with you.
You know, like, it's like empathy maybe or something. And I think there's a way that you can feel that without abandon. Like, I know because I do it, like, frequently.
I'm like, really able to, like, be with you in your experience of something, even if it's different than my experience. And there's like, something energetic that I couldn't. I couldn't do that with them because it was like. Because I needed more distance.
And I think what I wish I had done was say that I can't.
I see what you're asking for, and I can't because of these reasons, which I think still would have been unsatisfactory but, like, would have been a more honest truth come coming from me. Um, and I, I just. I bring it all up because I think it. It, like, sheds light on, like, some of the reasons.
Like, it just, like, feels present in this caveat conversation. Like, why don't we let ourselves just, like, be in our emotions? Like, why can't our emotions be big? And what do we need when our emotions are big?
Like, I do need. I do often need people to be with me. Like, I don't need them to, like, agree with me necessarily. Like, it's not agreeing and it's not like.
Like, I don't want you to feel my emotions in the way that, like, especially as a defined emotional. Like, I can feel when undefined emotionals are feeling my feelings and attaching to them. And I'm like, that's not supportive to me.
Like, I don't want that, you know, but there is a joining. Like, there is like, a. Like, I'm fucking with you. Like, I fucking get it and I'm fucking with you. That, like, that is what I want.
And I think a lot of the time the caveats are to try to, like, make sure that that happens, you know?
Speaker A:So the first thing it's like. And I feel that, too, like, very willing to sit at the table. Sit at the table with you. Light the candle between us. Sit at the table. I don't know.
Did you feel like that this. In this particular situation that they, like, wanted you to sit at the table, or did you feel like they wanted you to sit in their chair?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, that's the thing, Quinn, is that I think in this particular situation, what it felt like to me was that they wanted me to sit in their chair.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's hard.
Speaker B:And I think because of that, I wouldn't even sit in the room. And then they're like, well, at least fucking sit at the table. And I was like, did you know that there are no such things as tables?
Like, you know, like, I. Like. I think that was the vibe. Like. And so it wasn't either. Like, I don't. I don't think either of us were necessarily.
Like, I don't think I was trying to sit at the table because I was so afraid of them asking me to sit in their chair. And I was like, that is not a chair that I want to sit in. I have sat there before, and I refuse. So I honestly, I'm like, I don't know.
It's very possible that they were, like, asking me to sit at the table, and I couldn't because I was like, I can't sit at the table without sitting in your chair.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker B:Any of these things are possible.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I think.
I guess what I'm just sitting with now is just, like, this tendency to judge emotionality as naive and immature and, like, put, like, to kind of, like, invoke this binary of emotions versus consciousness.
Speaker A:The solar plexus as an awareness center.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And it brings those two together, right?
Speaker B:Totally. And it feels like a lot of the caveats are like, don't worry. I'm about to say an emotion, but I'm conscious. And it's like, yeah, yeah.
Like, why is that in question? But I. I think it is in question. And I also think that every time I use caveats, I reinforce the binary between emotions and consciousness.
Like, I keep pretending. I keep. I, like, keep investing in it enough to, like, try to. You know what I mean? And I'm like, I actually don't want to invest in that.
Like, I want to own and, like, role model that. Like, I am a human and I have emotions, period.
And, like, if you are going to question my consciousness because I'm having emotions, like, I don't want to engage with that. Like, that's not my problem. And I don't want to, like, try to avoid you doing that. Like, I'm going to get mad at you when you do that.
But I also want to stop doing that myself.
Speaker A:Me, too.
Speaker B:I feel like this might be a wrap. Does it feel like that to you? Is there other stuff that's, like, with you?
Speaker A:Well, the cat just walked in with a lot to say, so what I interpret is being asked by this creature. Sure. This creature right here has just asked for you to pull a card.
Speaker B:Hell, yeah. Okay, cool. Is that Fresh Prince?
Speaker A:Fresh Prince. It is Fresh Prince.
Speaker B:Hi. Hi, Prince.
Speaker A:Hannah's lying next to me on the couch.
Speaker B:Oh, is Hannah who we saw before?
Speaker A:Well, no, that was Fresh Prince. She's been in between my legs the whole time. And then he was on top of me making biscuits. He's the professional baker.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you have a question in mind that you're working on?
Speaker B:I'm, like, asking for it right now.
Speaker A:I have a thought, but I don't want to overstep.
Speaker B:No, no, you're. Step in with me. Let's step together. The question. I'll say that's, like, fumbling around right now. Feels like, who is the caveat?
But we can draw a couple, too.
Speaker A:I love that question. Yeah.
Speaker B:What was. I want to hear what was present with you.
Speaker A:What would be supportive in untangling this binary of consciousness and emotions? Or breathing would be supportive and breathing space between the two.
Speaker B:Okay, I want to ask for that, too. And then also, like, another question that just came up as you were thinking that was like, how do we sit at the table and not in the chair?
Okay, cool.
Speaker A:Who is the caveat?
Speaker B:That's. So we got Guardian of Wands, which is Queen of Wands in reverse, which I believe was my card for collaboratory.
That's the role that I play, Queen of Wands. So I kind of. Okay, so, like, this. This is very me centric.
But for me, like, the personal message I see in that is, like, there's a role I want to play in this group of, like, upending the caveats. Like, no more caveats. This is the card.
Speaker A:Looks like the aurora behind that fire.
Speaker B:Well, what does that feel like to see?
Speaker A:It feels like a figure in the I Ching that doesn't quite exist. Fire under Northern Lights.
Speaker B:I am also just like, the caveat is, like, not owning our fire. You know, like, what does it mean to be the Queen of wands? So many things. But, like, I really associate queens with, like, a Gentle holding, like a.
Like, incredibly, like, powerful and strong and yet gentle. Like, it's not emperor energy. It's not like, here I am. It's like, here I am. Like, I'm here.
You know, it's like the difference between here I am and I am here, somehow that feels different. There's something about kings that's like, here I am. Whereas the queen cards feel a little bit more like I'm here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I don't even need to tell you. Like, you can feel that I'm here. And then, like, what does that mean to be, like, I'm here with my fire?
And then what does it mean to be, like, I'm not here with my fire? Or like, I'm trying to pretend I'm not here with my fire? Or I'm trying to, like. Like, edgy, like, fit in something, you know?
It's like, fucking be here with your fire. The fire knows you're. Does anything more come up for you?
Speaker A:Yeah. You know, one of my favorite poems was Quiet for many, many, many years, and then it.
It got louder this year at some point, and it just keeps coming back. And a line from it is, the ocean does not mean to be listened to.
Speaker B:What's the poem?
Speaker A:It's called Saying Language by Jack Spicer.
Speaker B:Oh, this is the one. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker A:Let's see. It keeps coming up. So I feel almost cliche talking about it, but that line was just, like, there. Yeah.
Speaker B:So important.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay. Language. Your question was, how do we detangle.
Speaker A:What would be supportive in breathing space between.
Speaker B:Yeah, that.
Speaker A:Binary.
Speaker B:Yeah. Breathing space between consciousness, emotions. That's so on the nose. It's ridiculous. The Hanged One.
Speaker A:Well, well, well.
Speaker B:I'm like. I don't have any words for that. That's just, you know, change the perspective. Stand up.
Which is so real for, like, if you're positioning emotions over here and consciousness over here, like, turn upside down. You know, there's something that want. I'm like, what is the. There's something about this card has, like, the moon, like, at a.
Like, a little bit over, like, last quarter. And for me, there's something that's like. There's more coming. Like, you don't, like.
Because there's something else about the Hanged man for me that feels like this liminality, transition space.
And, like, I wonder what that says about, like, when we're in spaces of blending or, like, with this binary, like, you know, of, like, emotions versus consciousness. Yeah. Like, rather than trying to figure out the difference or make them the same, like, can you switch the.
Like, like shift the mirror and be like, what's going on with me that I'm doing this? Like, what's going on with me that I'm trying to separate them.
And I think in that what's going on with me question, there's something that's like there's more information coming which feels so part of the emotional wave, you know. And I'm like in the like trying to slap on consciousness to like prevent from feeling the emotions.
It's like you're not like there's more information coming. This is one piece of information. And to get to the next piece you have to actually feel this information, feel your way through this information.
And only then will we get to the next step. And only then will we get to the next step.
And only eventually then will we get to the consciousness part of like or what we're framing as consciousness. Because I don't want to endorse this like this versus consciousness. But it's all consciousness. And there's more information on the way.
Speaker A:Yeah. That deeply hits.
Speaker B:How do we sit at the table and not in the seat? Queen of cups in reverse. I love this card. This card comes up a lot for me.
Speaker A:When do you find it comes up for you?
Speaker B:It feels like a me card, which I'm embarrassed to say that because that's what I said about the guardian of wands. But that felt specific to collaboratory. But this is one. And honestly it not as much these like, like ferment. For years it's been like the.
The card that comes up that feels like a. Like I don't have. What's the words?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Like do you have relationship with the cards where like they, they indicate certain people. Like this was the card that was me.
And like it felt like in some ways like a parenting myself card and in some ways like a self knowing of like a mirroring of me. That's kind of like a. Like remember who you are. Like, remember this is you. Like, remember this is the role that you play.
Which is interesting because like from that vantage point then seeing it in reverse is interesting.
Like there's something for me then that's like I really am trying to switch up the role that I play and like specifically around space, holding and tending and empathing and you know, like I'm not trying to abandon that role, but I'm just trying to be like way more conscious about when I choose that role. And so like I wonder if there's a nod to that. For me at least that's like, choose when you sit at the table and choose when you don't.
But, like, you have to be fully on board in order to be able to sit. Like, in this question that's like, how do you sit at the table and not in the chair?
There's something for me that's like, well, you need your like, adult self somewhere in the room with you to be able to make that choice. Because if not, then you're back in this place that I think I was in that was like, it's either the chair or I'm out of the room.
And I chose out of the room, which ultimately was safer for me because in the chair was not an option. And I knew that. So thank you.
But, like, there's something for me that's like, adult self, like, grounded self needs to be fully consenting and in the room with me to be able to choose to sit at the chair and be able to like, fully make space for you while also holding that there's a difference between me and you. Like, there's a boundary between me and you, and yet I can make space for my bounded place for you.
And that involves me choosing consciously because if I'm not, like, if my parts are like, at odds or like, parts of them are.
Are a little submerged, then I'm like, then I might end up, you know, space holding or like, being with being at the table in ways that are like, not. I'm not fully consenting to or.
Or like, I'm not fully able to actually, like, if I'm not all on board, then I think it's a lot, a lot, like, blurrier which chair I end up sitting in.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'm. I. I'm getting the image of like, there's like an unnamed placard, like, at your chair.
Like, if you're sort of coming in under the table, you can't really see what is written or even there's a card.
But then if you have like your, your adult self, this bigger self, this higher self or whatever, they can, they can see it and they can read it, and then they can know exactly where that is for you. Where that chair is for you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they're deciding not the one who can't see and not the one who's in the chair who. They're like, but, but, but also like, look, there are two names at this chair. See?
Speaker B:Yeah. There's also something about this card that's like. It's an image of like a lily pad with a lotus flower and a fish coming up to It. And, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, from underneath the water, literally.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That floats. On which the lotus flower is a bit obscured by the width of the lily pad.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That'S profound. That's beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker B:There's also an energy that I see of, like, this fish is not, like, consuming the entire lotus with their mouth. Like, they're just, like, swimming up, like, gently. Like, do you have it so, like.
Like, in it, like, this thing I've been on about dosage, you know, like, it just really feels like they're, like, here, like, just, like, coming up, you know, like, again, the, like, the queen. The. Like, I'm here, like, and. And I think.
I think something about being, like, something like, sitting in the table, sitting at the table versus the chair. It's like, I'm coming in. In this moment. I'm, like, sniffing up in this way that this.
This fish is, like, coming up to the lotus, and it's, like, coming up to sniff the lotus, you know? I'm like, it can do that without being like, I am the lotus. Like, it's like, no, like, let me just, like, come here in this moment.
Like, yes, here I am. I'm a fish. I'm not a lotus, and I can still come to the lotus, you know?
Speaker A:And, like, your home is still the water. Your home is not the lotus because you can't really breathe if you were up, truly.
Speaker B:And there's your thing, like, your question about breathing room. Right. It's like, I don't know, like, if your home is in the water, then you better stay in the water to keep breathing.
And, like, joining someone else's ecosystem where you can't breathe is, like, that's not serving either of you. The breathing room is, like, absolutely necessary for us to be able to sit at the table together.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Anything more for you?
Speaker A:I can't ever tell you truthfully that I'm complete, but I can. I can tell you that I honor the ending.
Speaker B:I love you.
Speaker A:Love you, too.
