Episode 7
Truly Relational Beings: 4/6 Transpersonal Praxis ~ With Quinn, Amalia, and Nic
Join colLaboratory’s three 4/6 profiles for a chat from their respective roof balconies about the living assignment of Transpersonal Praxis that is the Opportunist - Role Model life.
Quinn, Amalia, and Nic share with each other and with listeners their experiences and reflections around:
- Shame and failure in the process of bumping into life before finding resilience or detachment “on the roof.”
- The evolving relationship to community, friendship, and environment: finding spaces and people that allow one’s full expression to exist without defense.
- Parentification in early role modeling
- Balancing participation and observation: needing distance within connection, cultivating internal space while remaining relational.
- Role models - what are they? Do we have them?
- Conditioning as a good thing - mutual exchange and relational influence
And a lot more.
🧪 This episode's Lab Partners:
- Quinn is a 4/6 Emotional Manifestor with Saturn in Aquarius
- Amalia is a 4/6 Emotional Generator with Saturn in Aquarius
- Nic is a 4/6 Sacral Generator With Saturn in Scorpio
You can find more about them and their other lab partners at kelseyrosetort.com/labpartners, including bodygraphs, natal charts, and ways to connect with their work.
💖 Stay tuned: New episodes of LAB PARTNERS are released weekly-ish, usually on the Moon’s day.
Intro & Music by Noah Souder-Russo
Transcript
Lab Partners is a behind the scenes conversation series amongst eight folks who are in a season of experimentation with creativity, authenticity, relationship, collaboration and visibility. We're letting you in on our processes as we unpack them together.
Amalia:Each of us speak the language of human design and some of us astrology too. These frameworks for awareness have supported our embodied differentiation and relational understanding.
We invite listeners to observe us through these lenses too.
Nic:Today's conversation is between me, Nick Strac of 4 6, sacral generator and me.
Quinn:Quinn of 4 6, emotional manifestor, and.
Amalia:Me, Amalia, 46 emotional generator. And bonus, this is Maya and Quinn's first episode on Lab Partners. So now everyone in collaboratory has been on Lab Partners.
Quinn:You can learn about our astrology and designs in the show notes and find even more about us and our other collaborators at kelseyrosetork.com lab partners.
Do you guys know people everywhere you go?
Amalia:Obviously.
Nic:I would say I almost only go places because I know people. Like, where I go is so often determined by the people that I know and like, who I want to go see and spend time with.
Amalia:Nick's been on the roof for longer though. I'm like, maybe that's our future right now. That is not my teacher. It's not my present.
Nic:Tell me about your present.
Amalia:I mean, yeah, it's very much what Quinn was just like everywhere I go, I go to Alaska and I run into like my partner's like metamor. Like my metamor is like, oh, high school boyfriend. Literally, like I got. I like run.
Anywhere I go in the world, there's like a one degree or whatever you call it, like a second. You know, it's like someone Knows my fucking best friend or uncle or something.
Nic:That's wild.
Amalia:Yeah, it feels very.
Nic:Oh, sorry.
Amalia:I was going to say it feels very inescapable.
And for the, like, third line trauma of, like, the very unresilant, just, like, mounds of social, like, community trauma that I have experienced, it was brutal. The fourth line was, like, my work because I'm like, I can't be anonymous anywhere. I can't just, like, be.
Or, like, the story was like, I can't go anywhere. I will always run into people. And in my, like, best moments of life, I'm like, I love that about myself. Like, everyone's a neighbor.
And in the worst moments, I'm like, I can't get away.
Quinn:Yeah. Yeah.
Nic:I'm curious about that piece of, like, being watched. Just, I'm a sensation that I think I have been noticing more in my body.
It's such a strange sensation to even try to describe of, like, I feel like someone behind me is watching me interact with my child right now. Or like, something like that. And it's so strange. But, like, do you all feel like you have specific. Like.
Quinn:Like.
Nic:Oh, just like, I can't. I'm, like, rubbing my forehead in a strange way with my fingers. Like, the feeling of being watched. I'm curious about that for you, too.
I've had it, like, my whole life, and people have reflected things back to me that felt incongruent with me. They'd be like, you're a leader. You're this. And I think often they were reflecting back to me, like, my sixth line.
But my fourth line mind was like, that's some bullshit. Like, I don't believe it.
Amalia:Right?
Nic:Like, the insecurity and all of that. So I was consistently called out as a leader in places where I did not feel like I. I did not think that I was doing that.
But I was also like, what are they seeing? Like, what are. It's something about, like, what they're seeing and what I'm experiencing. Experiencing on the inside.
And I don't even fully know how to explain my experience of it.
Amalia:That's so fascinating. That pulls up a lot of things for me. But I feel like I want to see if Quinn has thoughts.
Quinn:Yeah. The Unconscious six is interesting.
I especially think, you know, in relation to, like, the third line phase, like, there's this extra, like, burden of vulnerability with it.
Because while we're, like, being shoved into the third line world, there's somewhere, like, in the back of our, like, consciousness that knows, like, oh, like, shit, we're supposed to be a role model. There's a thing, there's a vibe that's like we're supposed to be a little bit like someone to look up to.
And we just keep messing up with our bumping into shit and whatever until we hit the Saturn return. And I think that there's something. Oh, I'm so curious to talk to you, Nick, as someone who's been on the roof longer about shame.
Because for me there's like starting that climb onto the roof, like, just gave me the opportunity to dissolve. A lot of the shame that I didn't even know got built up in the third line phase.
The shame of not doing things right or the shame of like screwing up again and again or the shame of, like, you know, oh, I was like hanging out with people who I'm not like, proud of hanging out with or something when I was a teenager, stuff like that, you know. And yeah, like, just not having the third line resilience, but being like forced out into the field, it's just like. It's a challenging experience.
Right?
Nic:Yeah.
Amalia:The image I have of it, as you said, that was like a literal battlefield. Like, I'm like.
It was like for me, like out there fighting without armor, you know, And a lot of the times the armor is just like the ability to get back up. Whoa.
But it's also like that natural protective mechanism against like, shit not working and like, being hard and then like taking it so fucking personally. Because for me, so much of what I identify thus far is this six line shit is like, I have to embody, like, just this, like, fucking obsession with.
I have to embody all of the things like I'm constantly meaning making, constantly thinking about, like, what is the world? What is myself? Like, what is. What is this all. What's. What is happening in this present moment?
And then I like, have to live that out in my personal being.
And that in and of itself, like, makes like it like, that way, like, makes everything harder because it's like, there's no such thing as, like, oh, well, this just like, shit happens. Just like now, let's go try something new. I'm like, shit happened. What does that mean? Like, what does this mean about me? Like, did I do it right?
Or, like, do I need to change myself to, like, handle that better in the future? And like, I'm not like, I don't know. My. Some part of my brain is still spinning about the stuff about leadership you brought up, Nick.
So I think that'll probably come through for me. But like, until that moment I hadn't even really connected my own thoughts about leadership and my own sort of like obsessions about that.
But I've been trailing recently to six line stuff. Interestingly, like most of what I think about in terms of my own six line stuff is just that like I have to embody the things I believe.
Like there can be no gap between myself and the world I want to live in. And like, and like it's not a future thing, it's a now thing. Like it's always like a right now. Like I know that the future is the present.
Like I know that like the seeds for like the seeds for what we want are actually here. Like, and like to grow those seeds, I just need to be in my own body, like doing the thing that I want or whatever. Like something like that.
And so yeah, I don't know, I went off on a thing. But I think, I guess what I'm saying is like that mentality is not a resilient.
Like it's like of like that mentality is like not going to just be like bumped into another thing. Like whoops, you know, it's like I just like take it all so fucking seriously. Which is like fun sometimes. And also like makes.
Makes like bumping around the world pretty hard.
Nic:Yeah, that's reminding me. I mean, I think for me, present day, I would say that some of that stuff does feel turned down for me.
Like if I feel a little bit more like, well fuck, you know, like when I bump into some shit, I think it's a little bit less like oh my God. But there are certain things like thinking that I'm at some level of unresourcedness right now.
Like I'm exploring exhaustion in my body and discovering like where like how that's moving through me.
Cause one of my friends was saying back to me, she was like, I mean maybe you're under resourced, but maybe it's because you're using resources for things that are not actually for you to be resourcing. And I was like, like hate.
Amalia:Especially the generator. Yeah.
Quinn:Are you satisfied or frustrated with this thing or that thing? Yeah.
Nic:Right. And so then I feel like I'm in this process right now of being like, okay, so I'm turning 40 next week.
And which is, you know, which for me is just a, I think a social milestone more than anything else. Like to me just feels like regular. But that's, you know, for folks who know about the roof stuff.
I've been up here a little moment, I think, but I feel like I only just kind of got up here this summer through a few months of like really deeply integrating in a lot of ways, like deconditioning from vague urgency in my body and like just noticing when I'm feeling urgency that's not tied to anything, like actually around me is. Has been helpful. So like relaxing into my sacral has been super supportive.
Amalia:But I just.
Nic:Yeah.
The way that my mind wants to constantly be chopping things up and making meaning or discovering where it came from and now do I do this and then I do that and like it just turns into this whole fucking thing sometimes I'm like, excuse me, please shut it. And then they don't, they don't.
And my job is to learn how to be like, okay, turning you down, like turning the volume down on that or at least just like not hooking into it. But I would say like, yeah, I'm still just fucking bumping around. Like, I'm just like. It feels like a new way of bumping around against things.
Amalia:But it does.
Nic:Feel a little bit slightly more chill than it did. I would say like maybe like 10 years ago for me when I was really looking at everything under a microscope. Also, Was I pregnant 10 years ago?
I don't know. I was pregnant almost 10 years ago.
Amalia:My baby turns nine in a few weeks.
Quinn:Yeah, that's my question actually. Is like when you were like between like 28 and 31, what was going on for you in your life?
Were you going through any like geographically, socially like pregnancy?
Amalia:Yep.
Nic: my Saturn return happened in:And they're just like all these things that have happened in my 3D life circumstances since then, which I feel like all contributed to my. I mean they did.
d at the beginning of October: as diagnosed with in March of:My mom hadn't died yet. But there were just like the years of like the beginning of getting on the roof were so intense for me. Like I was pregnant.
Discovering that I'm not a CIS woman.
Like, I only discovered that through being pregnant and getting clocked as a woman around town and then being like, wait, it feels like some part of me is being missed in this experience.
And that's when I really had the embodied experience of realizing I am not a CIS woman, you know, like, but I literally like the ideas that I had of maybe I'm not. Did not. Damn. I'm like, literally just realizing like, they.
Amalia:Didn'T.
Nic:Like, all tied together, they didn't get woven into me until my body had the experience of actively being clocked as a woman and me feeling missed in it. Which is very fascinating.
Quinn:Molly, what about.
Nic:I think sometimes. I'm sorry.
Quinn:No, I'm so. Nick, please, please keep going.
Nic:It was just like sometimes I feel annoyed about how much my body actually has to go through the experiences to get the information.
Amalia:I'm thinking about. Like, I don't know why this is what's coming up for me, but I'm thinking about too, Nick. Like, thinking about you creating life.
And like, as you're creating life, your body being like, see me as I am in my wholeness, you know, Like, I don't know exactly where I'm like where that's going, but that just feels really like potent in this moment. Like listening to that and thinking about like, yes, there's this like surface level perception thing of being like I'm being clocked as a woman.
But like just that like, experience of like gestating human life and that like experience sort of folding inwards on you. Like being able to like, see yourself in your expansiveness and like experience not see yourself, but like embody yourself in your expansiveness.
Like there's something there for me of like creation itself being. I don't know, for some, like, I've been in this like phase of my life recently of being like, I need to stop receiving.
Like, I have to start doing like, I had been in such a, like deep study mode. Like such a student. Like student, student, student, student, student.
Like, I'm always just taking classes and classes and learning and going to every, like just taking in like. Yeah. And I like got to this moment, I think just before. I don't know, maybe it's been. Maybe it's been like a year or so. I don't know.
But me being like, it's like time for me to keep learning, but like by like externalizing more like X forming, not just like the informing, you know, and like for some reason not like as touching this similar thing as I'm sitting with as I hear you. Like, as I'm thinking about this, a creation process and being like, now I have to move outward to.
I have to express and create outward to make more space for the internal receptivity and for the thinking about channeling and how I really am in this moment in my life, trying to create just more and more experiences, first of all, to channel so that I can continue to tune my channel and learn my channel. And I just have to channel to keep learning how to channel.
And part of that is it's not just creating experiences to do that, but also just attuning to the times I am doing that. That's so much of where the attention goes is already makes room and tunes into how it's already happening.
Anyway, I'm just thinking about that and then again, this creation process in the ways that like, yeah, like, it is like, it feels like it's like this creative process that, like, makes like, is how you learn, which just does feel also. Sixth line to me. Does that make sense? Like, it's like, by do, like, you have to do the thing.
You have to create the thing, you have to channel the thing. And then you learn who you are. Like, you're learning who you are by, you know, like, by watching.
You're learning who you are by watching what you're doing as who you are.
Nic:Yes.
That, like, there was something about you were like, having your hands go out in front of you and then they kind of went over by your head and like that.
Amalia:Yeah. For listeners, my hands have been, like, moving in circles for the last, like, five minutes.
Nic:Like, yeah, yeah. Yes. And my mind is so resistant to this. It's like there is this resistance to just, like, around and finding out.
And I think part of what I'm discovering is that sometimes my mind's stories about my capacity to encounter the future are, like, built in insecurity. So they're like, oh. My mind's like, oh, I don't know if you're going to be able to handle that.
One time something happened, it was really scary and we didn't like it. So maybe we should just not do that again, you know, Like, I also have hanging gate 44 in an undefined but very activated spleen.
And so, like, trying to not have the past repeat itself is like. And my fucking cross of laws. I feel like there's so many times when I, like, I have an experience I don't like. And I'm like, okay, new rules.
Here's what we're going to do. To never have to experience that terrible thing again.
And so then my mind is exhausting itself trying to control the fuck out of anything or wanting to. And then when life, you know, be life in, then my mind is like, ah. Like, what is this? This is not what we had planned for.
This is not what we thought it would be. And I think I'm having a new layer of, like, it's almost like when I'm integrating a new layer of awareness, like the mind.
Like, my mind will suddenly kick up like a bigger. It's almost like it tries really hard to like, prevent that layer of integration where it gets much more aggressive.
But then when I'm like, catching it, then that gets integrated kind of into more of like, my norm of, like, how much of my mind's.
Amalia:Energy I.
Nic:Can access does this. Like, I feel like what I'm saying doesn't make sense, but it also doesn't really make sense to me.
So that's part of is sensory, it's sensorial, but it does not, like, make sense, like, translate to my.
Amalia:Thinking about, like, I don't know. I was thinking about this earlier when you were talking about the mind, Nick. Like, you know, none of us have heterogeneous defined.
And even as I was seeing, like, I was thinking about this as I was hearing myself say, like, the meaning making. And Kelsey has just really been bringing in Ajna or reminders of the open Ajna or undefined Ajna for me.
And I think I'm thinking about just wanting to watch and tune into what is the meaning making that is my defined emotional authority.
And what is the meaning making that is my undefined Ajna that's actually trying to figure out right and wrong and figure out how to never do the wrong thing thing or, you know, and like, figure out who's doing the wrong thing. Like, I think I am. I have a feeling that I'm collapsing those two in my body. I also have Jupiter in Virgo.
Like, I like, I love to process, I love to make meaning. Like, I love to integrate. And I think I'm like. I think that my undefined Ajna has been, like, slipping in being like, meaning making me like this.
And like, you know, like, there's like, a lot that I think I'm like, maybe like.
Like, just like chewing on that, like, can be released and then I can, like, chew on the other things that are, like, a little more organic for me to be chewing on and, like, far less toxic for me to be chewing on. You know, like, what am I eating exactly? What am I taking in Here. And. Yeah, yeah. Just thinking about the mind and like, the fact that we're.
We're three four sixes with undefined head of Najna.
Quinn:Man, I feel like that's like, really just calling for, like, this divestment from the. The good, bad, right. Wrong, Binary. Right. And that's like, what the Ajna does is it tries to categorize.
So I feel like it's the processing and integrating angle, I think is like, just a part of it, but it's like moving out of this, like, lack of nuance and into more of, like, not just. Not just like, dialectics, because I feel like that, like, has this Latin implication of two with the.
The die part, but, like, really, like so many different things at once.
You know, sort of what both of you were saying about, I think about the embodiment piece is like the six line naturally just, like, moves into the energy of, like, what the six line wants. You know, all of our other. All of our other parts aside, like, the undefined Ajna, aside, the. All of this aside, like, what the six line wants is to.
Or not wants. But what it does is it role models, like, integrity and authenticity.
And, like, it sounds like for both of you, after the Saturn return, there was no longer a choice. Like, you just were going to be stepping into authenticity and integrity. Oh, A6 did not. It didn't give you the choice. It was like, here we are.
Like, oh, I don't really feel cis. Oh, oh, okay. Like, I see that must be orienting harder toward authenticity and integrity.
Nic:Wow.
Quinn:And, like, personally, for me, it's so hard to not do that.
Like, I just simply, like, if I'm like, if I have to be inauthentic in any way, like, in a conversation or in a situation, for me, it's just like, that goes against everything that my body and mind does and stands for. It's like, this is just.
There's no other way for me to exist except for by honoring not who I think I am, but, like, what I am and what I am doing, which is that role modeling, whether I like it or not. You know, I heard something really interesting about four sixes. I think, specifically, I think it was on a podcast, but.
Sorry, I just totally lost my train of thought.
Nic:Open hatchet.
Amalia:Scratch.
Quinn:I will. I will come back to that if I remember it.
Amalia:Okay, I'll find us.
Nic:Something really settled in me when you were naming, like, what the six line does is to role model authenticity and integrity. And there was something in how you said it where I was like.
Amalia:That.
Quinn:Is.
Nic:So there's no certainty of form. Like, there's no guaranteed behavior that shows that. So, like, I can't rule, orient myself to that place. What do you mean? Like, what do you mean?
I just, in the moment have authenticity and integrity, you know, like, it's just my mind hates that my body is learning. Like, I'm definitely. My body is slowly gathering the lived evidence of that being true. And I can feel that starting to build up in me.
But I. I guess the way I would describe it is like, I haven't yet crossed my body's threshold where it's like, in the next. Like, it's not yet in the next integration of whatever and some. Yeah, that part where my mind is like, ah, ah, ah, ah.
I like the clarifying thing of like, it's literally integrity. Like, for me, I love, like, when I think about integrity or like, congruence and what I am committed to.
Like, how does my congruence relate to my commitments? Like, what is true for me in the moment and how does that tie to, like, my bigger life philosophies and stuff? I have so much mental stuff in there.
Which part of right now what I'm like, practicing is being like, okay, yes, the mental stuff can come up and still I'm going to move my body and like, maybe I'm going to move my body incongruently, but my future self can catch that. Or if they don't, then it wasn't that big of a fucking deal. Can we please just get on life?
You know, like, that's the part for me sometimes of the mind not trying to be like, was that sacral? Was that. Was that real or not? And it's like, okay, can we just also exist? Like, can I just exist in my life and do random.
Like, it's so rare that I'm not thinking about what my body is doing or like, I'm. It's very strange.
Amalia:I mean, I feel like it's hard to be a watcher without being a police officer. That's like, what I am experiencing a lot of. I'm like, what is like, the kind and compassionate and like, gentle and like, truly open and unattached.
Like, detached. Like six line is like, about detachment. And like, it's like, what is the detached way of like, watching what's happening?
Like, as soon as I start getting attached to, like, I should be this way or like, what was that? What was that? Was that this or that? Like, I'm like, that's not. That's. That's not Detachment. It's not loving, and it, like, is getting in the way.
Like, it's, like, highly getting in the way, you know? Yeah.
Quinn:It's like a distorted orientation to authenticity in a way, which makes complete sense because we're not really conditioned to be authentic.
Nic:Right.
Amalia:At all.
Quinn:We're kind of like we're conditioned to be like everyone else and.
Amalia:Right.
Nic:Like, we're conditioned.
Amalia:Well, it isn't.
Nic:Can be inauthentic.
Amalia:Oh, that's like the point of conditioning. Right? Like, it's like. It's not. It's coming from other people. It's coming from other energy.
Quinn:Yeah. Integrity.
Nic:You look like you. Because sometimes conditioning. For me, like, I.
That whole, like, conditioning conversation we had in collaboratory of, like, I like being conditioned by you or like, I like conditioning you. So I think that, like, I don't think the purpose of conditioning itself is to take us away from the mind. It is. It is. Really.
Amalia:Yeah.
Nic:It's like other people putting their thoughts on us, and then ultimately we become responsible for all. All of that fucking conditioning. And what we do with it, I think is.
Amalia:That feels. That feels right. Okay. Yeah.
Nic:There's something I don't. I'm not exactly sure. Yeah.
Amalia:Well, it's what I heard in that. Tell me if this resonates. Is like, the present experience of, like, you experiencing my energy. I mean, my. Understand, like.
So I think what I'm hearing you say is, like, there's that present experience of you experiencing my energy, and then there's, like, you go into your own energy field and you discern what of my energy is going to become integrated into your own authentic form, and what of it you'll let sort of pass through you. And is that kind of what you were, like, getting at?
Nic:I think that. That is. I think you are describing the experience of what happens inside of me, and I don't feel like I have so much.
So much choice about it in the sense that, like, you know what I mean? But, like, that out. I've been really thinking about outer authority more lately because I didn't completely. Yeah. I didn't understand my relation to.
To it until recently. And I'm realizing, like, oh, when I. There are times when I'm like, ooh, I don't know if I'm gonna do that.
But then I think about someone and it's like, well, they said that they did that thing. And then I'm like, okay, you know what? I can do that thing. Like, in a way that feels empowering for me. That, to me, feels like, outer authority.
Like, sometimes I'm gonna from outer authority to be like, okay, like, use people as examples to, like, bolster my confidence to do a thing. And I think what feels like the kind of outer, like, in.
Or like, the outer conditioning or whatever, like, all of the stuff, let's say, as an example, like, here, societally, that folks tend to do, to like children, in terms of homogenization, conditioning toward the norms, like, that style of conditioning feels much more like.
Amalia:Yeah, it's.
Nic:It's based in the. I feel like it's based in an incompetence to be able to relate to my own truth and someone else's truth at the same time.
Like, I cannot hold the difference. Right. Like, if the.
If there is a difference between what I hold as true and what you hold as true, if I'm not capable of holding both of those equally, then, like, I'm gonna try to create some strategies to be able to cobble. Like, I'm gonna either make you wrong for us not agreeing, or I'm gonna make me wrong for us not agreeing or whatever.
Like, and then all of that shit gets in there. That's where I think we've been so conditioned into not being responsible for our own feelings.
Like, avoidance of responsibility, I think is at the hilt of, like, so much of homogenization. Everything gets outsourced to other people. It's blame, it's shame, it's guilt, it's. No, you're doing this wrong and you're doing this.
We're supposed to do it this way and all of that. I don't know why I started saying that. I'm done talking.
Quinn:If no one's noodling on their next sentence. I wanna.
I wanna ask Amalia what your experience between, like, 28 and 31 was like, in terms of any shifts that were happening that now you can look at and be like, oh, the roof. I see the climb done.
Amalia:Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I was noodling on my next thing, and I was kind of curious. I want a toy space for you, Quinn.
And you took that space to ask me a question that makes space for my noodles. So thank you. It's noodle time. I mean, I think the thing.
So I'm going to say what I was thinking about, which I think is an answer to that question, which is like, when you were talking, Quinn, earlier about. Well, you were talking about this. This shift, you know, of like, into authenticity, like, into.
I think integrity was the other word you used for, like, six line form business. And yeah, I was Thinking and I was like, I don't really feel like I was less authentically me or like less in my integrity.
Like, I kind of feel like I've always been like this. And I think that's a lot of why I've experienced. It's not all of it, but it's a lot of why I experienced all the harm I've experienced in my life.
And I think what for me feels like it really shifted and not didn't. Like, it's still shifting.
Quinn:And.
Amalia:I do think that there's, you know, astrologically it's like the Saturn return. But then for both you and I, Quinn, our moons are in Pisces.
So our Saturn returns were directly followed by Sadi Sati, like Saturn on our moons, which is difficult. And for me, that was my 11th house, which is community. And what I'm about to say is environment is a thing. Or maybe I already said that.
But the thing that I think feels like it shifted, is shifting still and will continue to shift is that like, me and my integrity and my authenticity are painfully slowly, like, finding new or like new backdrops and environments are finding me. And it's like, what are the correct environments?
And this I do think about, Nick, because, like, this is my projection of you slash understanding of you, Nick, is that it does feel like your environment. Your environment as a six sign feels really different than mine. You being almost 10 years, I guess, how much you're going to turn 40.
So you're seven years older than me. And yeah, that's like a few Saturn cycles. And I think, oh, boy, this has taken a while to get out. What I'm trying to say is like, I think.
I think that me trying to be authentic in the environments that I was in and have been in is like a lot more fucking painful and hard and brutal and third line Y than like me trying to be authentic in environments that support me to like, be authentic and like, want me to be authentic. And so I think for me it feels like it's an environmental shift. It feels like it was an environmental shift and it still feels like it's happening.
And the reason I bring the astrology in is because community is so much of my environment. I think that that's probably true for everyone. And community is so fucking big for me. My moon is in my 11th house.
I have:It's like one of those signatures when you look at my charts that pops out and like tribal as fuck. And so for me, community feels like a huge part of my environment. And, and that's why I think again also bringing in the astrology.
I'm like, Saturn is back in pisces in my 11th house. I'm not done shifting environments and I am so curious what I will be like a few Saturn cycles down the road.
And I imagine that environment is gonna really be finally more synced up with me and my full authenticity and integrity. I think a lot of the harm I've experienced and a lot of what my Saturn return.
I mean, I'll loop back and talk about actually my exact Saturn return, but I think again, like finish one sentence. Yeah, I think it's like the environments that I've been in have been brutal and I cannot not be myself.
So first of all that attracts more battle energy. And second, like when I receive the battle energy, it is fucking brutal because it is myself. It is not a mask.
Like it is myself like and myself has gotten like absolutely like it's been a fucking target, like just non stop.
And I think part of where my brain was going when I couldn't finish that sentence was like, yeah, it's really hard for me to look at Saturn return in a distinct frame. And I'm curious about you Quinn, since you're just as far out as I am from my Saturn return, from our Saturn returns.
So I want to turn this question on you after this, but I. The way I just said that made it sound like a weapon. I don't want to turn it on you. I want to invite you into it if you're interested in it. Sorry.
But yeah, I think for me it's like, yes, I'm not that far out, so it's hard to see when it's not even really fully that far in my rear view.
But also I have six placements in Capricorn, so Saturn rolled over six fucking placements in Capricorn in its domicile before then moving into its other home territory in Aquarius on three of my placements and then moving to Pisces where it was on my fucking moon. So for me I'm like Saturn and just as a fucking Saturn incarnate being, I'm just like, yeah, it's been a lot of Saturn.
It's been nine years of that and it has felt like that. And I think even looking at my childhood I'm like, there's so much coming up for me that I'm literally in a process of integrating in this moment.
I'm just coming back from this big trip that was full of ritual and ceremony and learning. I think maybe I'll save some of it because it's coming up right now, but I'll pin it and then we can return to it if we want to.
But so much of what's coming up right now I'm like, yeah, like I said, I'm in the process of integrating it and probably when this sentence finally ends I will be more integrated.
But I like so much of it is about being a parentified kid and being a child that didn't have a childhood and just thinking about what it means to be a parentified kid and then thinking of the layer of Saturn in that and the layer of six line in that what it has been to be a 5 year old role model embodying the shit for my family. Identified kid is stipe language and so is identified patient.
But I think both of them sort of have this like yeah, identify patient is like the member of the family that like all of the patientness, all of the problems get housed in and then get identified as that person. So it's like in some ways a scapegoat and in other ways a patient. You know there's a lot more that could be said about that.
That's like only one way that I just chose to describe that. But I was both and I think there's just a lot for that. There's a lot of six line in that for me.
And yeah, so I think your original question was like what's the difference? And I think, yeah, I think, I think there were so many years, like so many years where I haven't still do. I'm just like how can I change?
How can I change? How can I change? Like how can I become more. Yes. Embodied more myself.
And it's like actually like I don't really need to change that much about me because I like can't even. That's the whole thing. I can only be fucking me and I've only ever been fucking me.
But I cannot be me in these environments because I'm so fucking scared. And so what my actual like Saturn return, like those three years that are technically the Saturn return were, were me like being a shut in.
I mean it was also pandemic. It was good, good environment for a shut in behavior.
But it, it was like it was me being so fucking terrified of visibility and so fucking terrified of perception because of that fourth line stuff of like Everywhere I go, I run into people. And I was like, I can't be myself anywhere because I'm so traumatized.
Nic:Damn.
Amalia:Yeah. So I think.
I think coming out, I feel myself coming out of the shut in still and, like, remembering that I love community and I love being recognized and running into people. And I'm like, running into different people now, and that feels good.
And the more I run into different people, like, the other people and like, the people that remind me of those people, like, they don't matter as much. They don't affect my ability to be myself as much. Wow.
Quinn:That'S so, like, that last piece is mirroring my experience. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Exactly the same for me is now when you're turning on me, Amalia.
Amalia:Yeah, Now's when I'm turning on you. I'm glad he felt it.
Quinn:My Saturn return was. It was rough.
There was a lot of reckoning that I had to do with things from my childhood that I did not know happened until I was beginning my Saturn return. And so that was. My Saturn return pretty much was seeing everything break apart and then having to make the map and then follow the map to reassemble.
Amalia:Wow. And.
Quinn:Reassembling would have been hard if I wasn't on the roof or if I wasn't on my way to the roof, you know, at the end of my Saturn return, I, with no plans to do this at any point, ever ended up leaving the city all of a sudden. I lived in Chicago for like 12 years, and it was mid pandemic or like, mid lockdown, and I was like, I don't do anything here anyways.
Like, why am I here paying rent and kind of like hating walking out of my house and not being able to see the sky fully because all the buildings are like three flats. They're all kind of blocking my view of the sky. My, like, more than any city thing was just really over not being able to see the sky.
Amalia:Literally, so much resonance.
Quinn:I. That's the, like, the rising up too, right? Like, I'm gonna be on the ground anymore. I don't want to be able to look up and see all this stuff.
And I'm not. I can't be on top of it and look down. I don't like it. I was always like a top floor apartment dweller.
Nic:I'm like, you're mountains, right? Are you mountains, Quinn?
Amalia:Okay.
Quinn:I feel there's so much correlation. You know, I think mountains is a fourth line color. But, like, there's so much. There's correlation to it for me. They, they just dovetail.
But yeah, I ended up moving to Michigan. And in that move, this totally unplanned, like, out of nowhere thing, I, I, with like, fully withdrew.
I, like, textbook, like on the roof, like, withdrew from my entire world, which had been in Chicago.
Amalia:And.
Quinn:It just. It kind of feels like a fever dream just because it, it just happened. It felt very natural.
It felt like the river that carried me down, you know, it was like, oh, like, here we go. Like, what's going to happen here? I didn't know about human design at this point either.
I learned about human design probability probably a year after. Probably when I was like. Yeah, well, when I was like 29. Yeah. Because year four and I'm 33. So right at the end of my Saturn return.
And that last part that you said Amalia about. Now the people I see are different. Well, yeah, absolutely. Now the people I see are different because I live somewhere else.
And it's been really interesting, like, watching the fourth line at work, like watching the network get filled and made and, you know, connecting the people around me who I know now. And every once in a while there's a bridge between who I know now and who I used to know.
And yeah, a lot of the times it has felt a little bit like I deal with this still.
I deal with this thing of feeling sort of like a social failure when it comes to some of my friendships from my 20s because so many of them changed or dissolved, you know, so many of them bonds that I thought that I would have, like. And yeah, that makes me think of the whole like six line, like, or the fourth. We have the fourth line, like large network, small circle thing.
And it's like the bigger circle in my 20s and now it's like I can see sort of the difference between the circle and the network. Like, both exist, but it's kind of like I maybe thought it was only the network before.
Nic:That really reminds me of how differently I've related to my fourth line mind over time. I think, like, the opportunist part, I've.
I have, like, tried to make friends with so many people based on mental ideas of how they, like about the opportunity quote unquote of like, okay, here I'm gonna. But like, if it's coming in from my head, I know it's incongruent like that. I now know.
I now know that if I'm thinking about what might happen between me and somebody as like, ooh, this, like, that is actually not it for me. Like, it literally needs to be body Led. Like, it has to be body led or else I'm just doing mental.
Like, I mean, not that the hat, but you know what I mean?
Amalia:Yeah.
Nic:And I'm just thinking, ah, yeah, yeah, damn. And I think for me, like, God, I cut so many people out over the years. People that I thought would be my best friends forever.
Like, so few people have actually squeaked through and seen. Stayed around for the long haul with me, like, and mutually so, you know, like, it's not like I'm the only one who's been cutting people off.
Like, other people have been not, you know, like, wanting to continue relationship with me either or whatever. But I think, yeah, I'm really. I like the idea of like the network and the circle part.
And then also, like, my friend Karen had told me about, someone told her there's a joke about four sixes that, like, we don't really go on the roof, we go on the balcony because we need to still, like, shout down to our friends. But I think there's an aspect I am starting to recognize. Like, yeah, I've got like, my roof people. Like, I'm okay on the roof with my people.
Those are not the people who drain me. Like, there's a certain aspect of, like, I'm still feeling into the energetic tendrils of even just like, like, fourth line.
Like, chopping it up with folks, you know, like, it's like an interesting thing for me. This morning I had coffee scheduled with a friend. I had no clear sense in my body if I would be like a yes or no for it.
So then I was just like, let me just wait till she reaches out. Like, I literally was because. But the mind. Oh my God.
The way my mind would be like, well, you need to do this and you need to tell her this and you need to, you know, And I didn't know if I want it. I genuinely, like, how often have I not let myself not be sure? Like, that's something I'm really recognizing.
So often I try to be like, yeah, no, I'm definitely no, I'm definitely a no. You know, Like, I'm trying to fabricate certainty where it doesn't exist. Hello, Undefined Ajna Open head stuff.
And then I'm trying to, like, make plans in the future based on fucking dreams in the wind, you know? Like, it's like, it's so wild to just be this g sacral root, homie. And like, Kelsey naming. Like, it's pure energy. Like, vroom, vroom, vroom.
Where do you want to go? Vroom. Vroom. Where's the energy going now?
Quinn:Vroom, vroom.
Nic:You know?
Quinn:Yes.
Nic:The dumb motor. And it's. God, the amount of time that I have spent outsourcing false certainty to all of my little tricks and traps of how I throw shit in the.
And now I'm, like, quadruple exhausted because I'm noticing those things, but I'm still doing those things. But I'm trying to decide whether or not I wanted to, you know, like.
Amalia:Yeah.
Quinn:What you said at the start of that neck reminded me of, like, the. The balcony roof piece reminds me of, like, oh, yeah. Like, we'll still invite people over to hang out, but we're not gonna go down this.
To the street to meet them, to let them in. We're throwing a key down off the balcony. Like, let yourself in. Come on up. Like, let's go. You want to come hang out? And I got. I got you.
We got a picnic. We're ready to go. Like, but you gotta come kind of sit up here with me.
And what that means to me, too, is, like, you gotta kind of come up here and sit in authenticity with me. And that's what I'm thinking.
And I think that, you know, broadly, it can apply to a lot of different things, a lot of different people, a lot of different placements. But, like, for me, this, like, step into this, like, unconscious role modeling.
This unconscious, like, needing to be authentic and have integrity and stuff in everything that I do. I. That. And, like, that's.
That's the friendships dissolving is that the people who are down for that are down for that and everyone else, like, unfortunately, like, it's. It. Something has happened, and it doesn't work anymore. And, you know, something has happened. Something the. Interesting.
Amalia:Yeah, I think I'm. I'm thinking a lot as y' all talk. I mean. Cause I've been wondering. I'm like, yeah, the sixth line is so present, and so is the fucking fourth line.
And, like, I. I think for me, I, like, really struggle with, like, what it feels like is. It's. It's like, I'm not less social. I don't need community less. In fact, I get clearer and clearer on the ways I want to be in community.
But I think, like, the detachment piece is really key. Like, I think there's, like, this way of, like, engaging and, like, getting involved that I can't fuck with at all. Like. And, like, I.
Especially when it comes to, like, broader society, like, I'm like, you know, and I'm curious how that tracks with, like, Other profiles that are, like, deeply in their human design experiment. Because I think that that might be a similar thing.
But, like, there's just like, a particular energy to the way that I can't get involved because it's not. Yeah, like, there's this way where, like, the fourth line.
So much of the fourth line is like, it's the network, and it's like, it's wanting to influence and be influenced, you know? And then there's also the fact that I'm like, I. Like, what's the difference between influence and engagement? Like.
Like, I don't care about, like, I cannot care about what is, like, going on, you know, in so many. So many orientation.
Quinn:Right.
Amalia:Same one.
Quinn:Like, you're reorienting to the ideas of, like, community, to the ideas of being amongst, to the ideas of being known or seen, to the ideas of, like, everything that kind of gives you or your ajana pause. It's like you're. You're reorienting to it.
Amalia:Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because you say ideas and I'm like. That feels more mental to me than this particular feeling feels like. I think. Or maybe maybe that's part of it is that it's like I am letting.
Like, I don't care about the mental parts of it like, that. And I think a lot of people do, and, like, that's maybe correct for them, and it's just not for me, but, like, for me.
Like, I'm like, yeah, I just, like, I don't like my. It's like, not just.
Yeah, I think there's just like, something about the word idea that I'm like, for me, it's this, like, embodied sensation of being like. I don't, like, want, like. It's funny because as I'm thinking about it, the visual I have, like, is of, like, a network of, like, the constellation.
And it's, like, interesting because there's like the fourth line. Desire to be networked and connected. But the sixth line, I'm like, that's.
I'm actually, like, I'm visualizing the network and I'm like, the six line does not want to be part. Like, I don't want. The 6 line doesn't want that.
I'm like, I do want to be over here, like you said, and, like, throw down the key, you know, And I'm like, I want the social. Socializing. But, like, I, like, I want. It's like, okay, there's something here that's like.
It's like, I want access to the network, but I Don't want to be, like, glued into it. Like, I'm like. I'm like. I want to be able to, like, hop into it and know that it's there.
But I also, like, really need to be able to, like, remove myself and go be somewhere else, detached from anything else, and, like, know that I can return to the thing. And even when I'm detached by myself, I'm still going to be, like, networking in my head.
I'm still gonna be like, what do I do when I, like, go by myself? I, like, like, call one of you, you know? Or, like, think about things that you said. Like, I'm still in my, like, being influenced and influencing.
But I like, yeah, like, my body and my energy body, like, needs its own space in this way. And I've been. I don't know, like, one of the places I was when I was recently traveling, I just. I came up against a. A real, like.
Like a conflict, I guess, is one word. It doesn't feel exactly right, but attention of, like, the ways that I have become so detached.
And, like, I felt like there was this, like, pretty big thing happening with one of my friends that I was visiting around. Like, I think around my insistence on not getting engaged or involved in certain ways because I don't care. And, like, I can't care.
And I actually didn't want to be that close to, like, the thing. And it was interesting because I think there was a way that, like, my mind, like, it's like, that's true for my body. And so I think my mind has been.
But, like, oh, yes, we're detached now. We don't care about anything. Which, like, that's not true. Like, that was my mind's adoption of that.
And I think my mind was, like, doing all this work that I think they were picking up on some, like, incongruency, my friend. Like, I think my mind was like.
I think they were like, dude, like, you can still fucking, like, be with me and my reality without, like, giving me some fucking, like, soapbox about how, like, every reality is possible. Like, it's like, I don't need to hear that right now. And, like, they're right. They don't need to hear that. I'm like, I didn't need to say that.
And I think that was my mind being like, you know, like, we're detached now. Do you hear me? Like, we should be detached. Everyone should be detached. I'm like, you know, But I think that was, like.
That was an interesting moment for me to be like, I can Feel how much my body is trying to protect itself and be like, I am actually. Like, I can't get involved. And. Yeah, I think I'm. Like. I've been thinking since that moment of, like, the ways that. Yeah.
Like, what does it mean to not be involved as a body and, like, still have space and respect and deep trust in other people's realities as people that do get involved. Hmm. I don't know where I landed there, but that's. That's where I. That's where I got.
Nic:Something popped up in me.
And I don't know if it's for you or for me or whomever, but just while you were sharing that, I was really feeling how, like, how much my body has literally had to go through all of the experiences that I've gone through up until now, like, on the roof, to get to the point where I'm at of, like, starting to integrate different knowings of stuff about my body more. But I think just feels so relatively recent that I'm just starting to tap into trusting my body a little bit.
Like, it feels like I'm just at a bit of, like, a tipping point to believe. Like, perhaps my body could run the show. But, like, when I hear what you're talking about, it just feels so familiar to the part of me that was.
I mean, God, like, I used to be. So. I think I was just so scared of myself in a way. Like, I think, Amalia, I'm hearing you say that you could. You were just, like, always you.
All the way to the surface, and as a result. Well, not as well. Yes. And you experienced what you experienced as you were. As you were encountering people from that place.
Amalia:Yeah.
Nic:For me, a lot of my encounters with people, I think from a very young age, and I think about my little, like, a pure individual motor. Like a pure individual dumb motor generator. Like, I must have been doing all kinds of crazy shit as a kid.
You know, like, just all kinds of things that would have pissed my parents off. You know, these people, they're Indian and Korean from those countries. We've got that lineage.
We've got those cultural conditionings and stuff in there.
And, yeah, I think so much of what I picked up over the years and all of these skills and protective habits and stuff that I've ingrained in myself, like, so much revolves around, like, hiding my difference, hiding for sameness, you know, like, trying to assimilate self, betray, for assimilation, to, like, cobble some false belonging together. And it feels like my. It feels like so much of my life I've moved in these patterns of restriction and withholding and stuff, and now it's.
It feels like I'm at this point of being like, okay, I can trust my body. I can trust myself, my wholeness and my fucking and my people.
Like, you all, like, having the support, the support of like everyone that I've met in collaboratory that has absolutely, like, it feels like it has expanded my capacity to self integrate because I have all of these different people who are reflecting me back to me in these beautiful, honest ways. And so, yeah, I just feel like so many more things have been available to me in this time. I don't know. I'm done talking again.
I just talk and then I stop.
Quinn:That's so cool. It's such a beautiful thing. And yeah, I totally agree. It's. It's really life changing to get the. The mirror and to get to feel seen. To get to choose.
To get to choose. I mean, yeah, but what I want to say is like, the body remembers the third line phase. Like the. The. We're traumatized by our third line phase.
Honestly, I think none of us can get out of it without having a little trauma from it. And what you were saying at the beginning of that Nick, about like having to like, experience this stuff, I was like, oh, that's direct third line.
So it's like the third line has to like, get their hands dirty. The third line has to experience the thing in order to understand it.
The third line cannot hear about something and know what, have any idea of what it is. Like, you can't be like, someone can't be like, oh, would you like, maybe enjoy to go mountain climbing sometime?
And you're like, I have like, no idea until I try it. And then I'm like, that was for me or that was not for.
And the other thing is that the third line has to go through, like, success, successes and failures. Like, it must go through every process with like, at least a success and a failure to understand it, to grasp it.
And I think that you know that that happens with us too. Like, your hands had to get dirty. My hands had to get dirty. Malia's hands had to get dirty.
Like, we had to be in the mix of it, doing the thing, playing with the stuff and understanding it, bumping into it. And it's painful. It's so painful because, like, again, going back to like, one of the.
The earlier things that was said is just like, we know unconsciously that we're not supposed to be messing up or something, you know, so there's like this shame that I feel, like on the roof. And shame are things that I've thought a lot about.
And just, like, the opportunity comes, like, when the ladder, when the stairs present themselves, the opportunity comes where you can almost see up and see, like, the potential for your. For. For transmuting your shame and for accepting what you have been through, even when it's been messy in that third blind phase.
Accepting and, like, exactly what you said, Nick. Like, loving that. Because that has gotten you to where you are.
Amalia:Huh?
Nic:That third line body.
Amalia:Oh, no, no, go ahead, Nick.
Nic:It was just the, like. Oh, yeah, the third line body remembers. That part is standing out for me so much.
Amalia:I appreciated that.
Nic:What did you have, Amalia?
Amalia:I have, like, two things, two directions. Like, one of them, I always try to do this up front, and then I'll lose the other one. Give me a minute. Okay. One of them is role models meeting.
Role models meeting elders. And the other one that I think, just as you were talking about the opportunist when I was just having this, like.
Like, this, to me, feels like the crux of the 4 6. Or like, it's in the crux with all the other friends of the crux. Like, this piece that.
It's like this thing that our bodies are here to do, which is, like, embody authenticity and integrity. And, like, in a way that. That's like. That's how we teach. Like, that's how we lead.
It's not by, you know, heresizing, like, whatever the verb of that is. It's not by, you know, it's like, by being. We don't do that in hermitude. We can't do that in hermitude.
Like, we have to do that in relationship, and we don't really get to remove our. Like, I'm like, I'm still learning what this on the roof stuff is, you know, and fighting it in all the ways that I keep realizing I'm fighting it.
But it's like, it. That's the balcony part of it, right? Is that, like, that's not. It's like. It just feels.
It's like, really interesting to me to think of this, like, on the roof. Ness. Because I'm like, we don't really. It's like, we're on the roof, but we're not away from people. Like, that's like. No, not how we. It's.
That's not how we learn how to be. And so there is this, like, desire to, like, remove and, like, learn and be like, what is my body and protect Also. But also learn.
And, like, I learn through relationship. Like, I continue to learn through relationship. Everything is relationship and only transpersonal profile.
Quinn:Like, we're the transpersonal profile.
Nic:Yeah.
Amalia:Yeah. And so it's like, it's not just about being. It's, like, about being in relationship. Yeah, like, we are here to be in relationship.
And, like, yeah, like, truly relational beings.
Nic:Truly.
Quinn:The way that I see it is like the. The roof refers to, like, a certain social withdrawal or change or, like, reorientation that we go through. But, like.
And we sort of, like, we pull back from being in the middle of the crowd to a different observational location. We're not isolated on the mountaintop, on the balcony.
We have our eyes on the street festival below us, and we're witnessing with this wider view, like, the crowd and interpersonal relationships and the behavior of others and stuff. And, like, we just aren't in the middle of the chaos anymore. We have space.
We have space to contextualize that which we learned about relationship and purpose in our first 30 years. Like, we can see our struggles with new eyes. And there's, like.
There's that breathing room to unpack the shame and to find the freedom that lies outside of it.
Amalia:You know, I think I'm just, like, having this moment in myself where I'm like, for me, like, that roof is within myself. Like, it's not in my environment. Like, I'm not. I don't even know if the street festival metaphor, like, for me, Quinn, lands in my body.
Because, like, for me, I'm like. I think I'm in the middle of the street festival, but in my body, I'm on the roof, you know? Like, it's like that.
And that's the thing, is that it's like this thing of me being like, okay, isolate. Go be by myself. Like, I keep being like, I have to have. I have to schedule, like, a full week by my.
And I'm like, maybe I do, but I'm like, I actually. Like, it's like, within, like, the. The, like, musculature that I'm building is like, how to be detached while still being, like, attached.
You know what I mean? Like, it's like, how do I view attachment? With detachment. And, like, that is the thing that I feel like I'm in of. Like, I don't act.
Like every time I try to, like, remove myself in some way to have more space, to be calmer, I'm like, that's not right either. Like, it's. It's like a truly, like, building the. Yeah. Like, like, like building the distance within myself. Yeah.
Nic:I definitely. There's that in like, there's something about that internal roof thing that you're talking about, which also feels accurate for me.
It's almost like like Quinn, the street festival and the roof things.
I feel like I can in my own body, like toggle being in like 3D land, which feels more like fourth liney in in the thingies and then like pull out, but literally just like energetically pull out. Like, and I'm just like zoomed out more.
And like, literally I can feel even like the detachment meaning, like it just feels so much more in the observer of what's happening. But I'm still like there in my body around people even sometimes.
And I'm just like, what's really coming up for me right now is how much I've like mentally oriented to roof stuff.
Cause like I learned about roof stuff after I'd already gotten on the roof and then I was like, oh, let me mentally apply this to how I'm supposed to live my life. And like, I think the unfortunate truth for me is like, I'm just like, I'm only gonna find my limits by crossing them.
I think that's like the annoying part of like, I don't know. I don't always know my limits before I cross them. And I don't want to. Like, my mind is like, well, that's not a fun way to live.
How can we just create some rules so we don't have to keep crossing our own boundaries? But the reality is like, the fucking boundaries change all the time based on my capacity, what part of my cycle and am I in?
Like, all of that shit's always changing. So really, literally it comes back to like present moment, decision making. Like, where am I now? Where am I now? But like, my mind fucking hates that.
Like, that is the height of uncertainty and unpredictability. And part of my mind's like story is still like, I'm not going to be able to handle that.
The future will definitely suck balls if I do this thing that's incongruent and I'm gonna end up blah, blah. So then I just don't move and then I don't get that information. I don't get the data.
I just live in the mental assumption and treat that as if it's true.
Amalia:This is maybe a clunky transition, but this is.
There's this just thing about the role models that I have been wanting to bring in and it's like poking at me from something you said earlier, Nick, like, I don't know if it's related, but when you were talking about like how like sometimes you do adopt some like a conditioning in the conversation about conditioning where you're like sometimes you do adopt someone else's framework. And I see that too as like, as role models. Like I remember learning we're also like really deeply wanting everyone else to be role models.
You know, like we need everyone else also to be like in their authenticity, in their agency. And it like it drives me fucking crazy to be around people that are like in the fluff, you know, I'm like, what's the.
And I, I try to, you know, like, and I think that like has to do with this like deep craving.
And I remember in a conversation you and I were having on Monday about eldership, like it feels this similar thing of like I do think, yeah, like part of this, part of this is like needing and wanting elders and wanting role models. And I think of my own like hard on for teachers. And I've always ascribed that to like my ninth house situation.
But I do think there's this like sixth line thing too. And I'm curious what both of your relationships are.
Two elders and two role models in your life and like how you interact with and learn from role models in your life. So.
Quinn:Nick, you got anything on that?
Nic:I mean I, I just have like.
Amalia:A.
Nic:Like I don't feel like I've had so many great like embodied role models who supported me in, you know, getting in my body besides like the woman who genuine like my hands on, somatic therapist person with whom I worked in for like a year.
Plus that for me ended up being like the ticket for me to kind of like lock into my body so much more and but like all of the teachers that I'd had before working with her, yeah, we're just like highly intellectual I think, and they would like discuss the body.
But I don't think that I was necessarily like experiencing an embodied teacher necessarily like where they were embodied doing their thing and not just mentally telling us like what we could also be paying attention to.
Amalia:I don't know.
Nic:So that's my.
So I don't feel like I've had very many, any really wise elders that I can consistently go to for like accurate reflection back or even just like non judgmental nuanced takes on fucking anything, you know. Like, I don't feel like I've had very many people in my life for that. What about you, Quinn?
Quinn:Yeah, that's why I was like, I, you Want to go first because I'm like, whenever I've been asked the question, pre human design, post human design, I really, I guess I haven't been asked this question in a while. But when I have been asked before, like, do you have any role models? I'm like, no, in a way that sucks. Like, in a way, like I want role models.
Where are they? Do you know of anybody? And so like, you know, like the answer would have been like, oh, like a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
Because like, sure, like there are things about, you know, certain people that like have like admirable role model qualities to them. But I'm also like, no, I've never personally had someone like that. I've never had someone that I looked up to in that way.
And I don't know if that, if that's like a six line experience.
Amalia:Or.
Quinn:If that's just like a me thing. It feels, there's something that feels kind of like weird about it though where it's like I.
There feels like there's a should in there for me, like I should have someone that I look up to or there should have been someone getting. But I don't. I've never felt like I, I had people who I thought were cool, older people who I thought were cool when I was younger.
But the closest I've ever gotten maybe to a role model is, is just like having a mentor. And I haven't had that many of those.
Nic:Yeah. And I'm just reflecting. When you said the word mentor, it immediately flashed on someone in my head who I've related to as a mentor.
But when I really think about my relationship with them, like often it was a lot of. It was almost like they wanted to feel better, like they wanted to serve as my role model.
But they weren't actually like congruent or embodied in what they were up to. So it was like they were just trying to be like the wise person saying like disembodied cliche days about life and throwing them at me.
And, and because I was so like externally oriented, just like look like my internal orientation or attachment to my own integrity was like non existent feeling. So when my mentor would show up and be saying these things, I would think that that's how a mentor is supposed to be.
So then I take on the mantle of like contempt, of just like going and giving unsolicited, undifferentiated advice to people, you know, just saying some. And like, so yeah, like I do really, I grieve. I do grieve. Like I know you know, life is what it is. It is what it is.
I haven't had a mentor in that way. And I also though like I do grieve the loss of that in terms of like my like my body has not like in a younger time in my life.
I didn't have the cellular experience of like consistently being in aura with someone who was, you know, like doing their own embodiment, self awareness stuff consistently. And then like bringing me in and welcoming me on my own differentiated journey of it.
Amalia:Like, yeah.
Nic:What about you, Amalia? What has your role model y life been like?
Amalia:I feel like I do have role models. I mean, I think it's slices. I don't have elders really that have. I mean I think this.
I could go on about sadness, about loss of intergenerational community and eldership and et cetera, but I think to me I find slices of role models all over the place.
Like, it's not like there's one person that I'm like I go to but I think I have so many teachers and with all of them I'm constantly in a discernment process. Like my, I feel my like my undefined g. Always in this process of like, what's.
Where's the like like feeling where the resonance is and other like I feel like it acts or this isn't my mind.
My mind's conception of what's happening is that yeah, I, I just like, I am like a tuning fork for like truth and I can, I can feel and I, and I know that all of like we all have that capacity to like to feel in that and I think I really like in those moments, in every moment I experience truth and resonance within someone else's body. That's the moment of role model ship for me.
Like, that's a moment that I'm learning from them and I get to experience in an energetic way what their body felt like in that moment. And I'm so grateful for those moments and I experience those moments every day.
You know, like, I think Kelsey is someone that I've, like, I've learned so much from and like has role modeled so much of like as a creative. The way that my impression of, of how she's. Yeah.
Like really, like really let her life fall away until like let multiple lives fall away until the life that remains has been the one that she, she that matches her. And I think that that's been an incredible like, that has been a longer term relationship of watching that.
It's not just a slice, but I think, you know, I have like my reiki teacher and I like, I was curious, Quinn, for you, whether your Tai chi teacher felt like that for you. But like I think for me it's like I'm, I'm always like.
I think about my friend Alana who like is like an alien to me in the ways that she just like says she just does what the fuck. Like my impression of her, she like does what the fuck she wants, you know.
And she like something I really like love about her and that I do feel like I've learned so much about from her is that like she. Yeah, she like, she's a little bit of like a. I don't know, she's so different from me.
She's the youngest child and she's very like, like they will come to me, like don't leave me behind and also they will come to me and like in this way that's like.
I don't know, I. I feel in her like a sense of like even in her insecurities, like her body trusts that like she like that people will love her and do love her and she says no when she wants to and like self centered, like centers herself when she wants to and like, and still like it's like with one hand is like no, not right now. And with the other is like, and I love you. Like I can't wait to see you when I want to see you, you know.
And like has this like beautiful balance of like does what the fuck she wants and still like tends to the relationship in like a really beautiful like truthful way. And I think like being friends with her has been such a like model of like you can have both.
Like you can tend while tending yourself and like you can trust that people love you enough to do what you need to do. But yeah, I think, I think this like, I do think I have kind of an insatiable. Like I'm like, I top from the bottom a lot.
Like I'm very like you're gonna teach me. Like whether you know it or not, you are already teaching me and I'm already learning from you. And yeah, I think I like use all.
I use that and I seek that in my environment. A lot of the time it's with plants and animals.
Like I think I learned so much from my cat and who also is like everything will be on my terms and I am so fucking cute. Like you will follow me, you know.
And yeah, I just, I think there's like so much I learn from the creatures of the world and I'm Always I'm trying to learn. Like, I think the sixth line comes in and that I'm like, yeah, like, I'm seeking. I'm seeking environmental beings everywhere.
Always environmental cues of, like, how I need and want and, like, lust to be in this world. Yeah.
Quinn:I definitely have people who I look up to and people who inspire me. I think I have, like, an orientation toward the word role model that I'm doing this conversation where I'm like.
It's almost like homogenized role model that I'm thinking of. Yes. Yeah.
Nic:I'm saying that I'm realizing the same about me.
Quinn:Yeah. But, yeah, there are absolutely, like, people who. The way that they do life, the way that they do themselves, the way that they do.
Their authenticity is, like, very inspirational to me. And I mean, I think also, like, I. At the initial question, I got tripped up a little bit because of the elder piece, because my role model.
Like, if I have role models, they're. They're my friends. They're the people who I like, who I go to and who I consult with and who I, you know, want to hear about their.
Their views on life and everything bigger and relationship and stuff. Like, yeah, but they're. They're people who.
Who I touch, who I'm connected to, who are my age largely, but who have, like, a deep level of wisdom that I revere greatly. You know, I would say literally everyone in collaboratory is a role model.
Amalia:Yeah. Yeah. That feels so true.
Nic:Yeah. This is.
I love this because Amalia, when I was hearing you and then also Quinn after, like, it, I am feeling myself pull apart what I have defined a role model as, like, and what kind of assumptions I make as soon as that word is said, and, like, what ways of being might necessarily have to be associated with that. So, yeah, this is helpful for me to just recognize them with my own loose. Like, wait, what am I even conceiving of when I think of role model?
You know, apparently, because when you asked me, I was thinking about, like, older, smart people or something, you know, like some sort of a. Something like that. But when you talk about. You have some slices.
You talked about slices of role models and just the way that you see it in your everyday life. Like, I love.
Like, I feel myself relax, even, like, oh, I feel like it's a double relax because it's, like, less pressure on others, but then also, like, less pressure on me. Yeah. Like, I'm. I would guess that in the conversation I had with a new friend earlier today, I was role modeling when I didn't give a.
That she was late. You know, she was so worried about being late. And I was like, oh, my God, please, you have like three children. I could. I could not care less.
Like, even if you didn't have children, I don't care about that anymore. But she was just so relieved to hear that, you know? And I'm like, oh, that could have been like a moment.
Mamali, when you're talking about these in, like, I hadn't even like, broken the idea of a role model down to the like, momentary experience between two people. I fucking love that. Or two being two energies. Yeah.
Quinn:Like holding the nuance of somebody. Like, they're not. They're not like these like in full role models. But people role model certain things, right?
Nic:Yes.
Quinn:Yeah.
My tai chi mentor, absolutely, like, is a role model in so many ways and is a role model in dedication and in, you know, practice and in self confidence. I mean, he's a huge role model for me in self confidence. He walks around and it. Nothing. I don't know how to say that. He walks around with.
With just this natural, non heady way of confident being that I'm like, I want that. I want to find that in myself. Not like I want to become that I don't want to become, but I want to find that thing that you have in myself.
Because that looks like it feels really good. And I feel really good in the presence of that, you know.
Amalia:And it's cool, like, the way you're talking, like, that reminds me when I was like, you're not trying to become something different. You're trying to, like, remember the part of yourself that already is that. Yes. You know, which, like, is the deconditioning. Right.
You're trying to, like, let go of the parts of you that are covering up or distracting from that part of you that is that. Because I feel like.
Nic:Well, like.
Amalia:And being around you, like I feel about you, Quinn, the way that you just described your mentor, you know, like, I've heard you talk about the other parts, but, like, your energy to me feels like the energy of someone that is like, this is who I am. I'm fucking chilling. Like, yeah, I'm fine. Like, I'm me. And like, I really do feel that around you. And so I think it's like that.
That feel like to me, I hear that. And that solidifies so much this thing that it's like we're looking to other people to reflect the things, like, we need to remember in ourselves.
Quinn:God, I'm gonna cry. I'm gonna cry. And it's, like, so funny how I don't feel that a lot of the time, right? I don't feel. I don't feel. And.
Amalia:Yeah, but you see. But that's the thing is that I think it's like. It's a beautiful. Like, it's like you do need to look like you. It's like, that's a valiant pursuit.
Keep looking for the other people to reflect that in you. And while you're looking for that, I will still be looking at you, seeing it already in you.
Quinn:Mamalia, thank you so much. I'm gonna integrate that all day long.
Nic:I feel done. Whoa.
Quinn:The sacral. That's fucking crazy.
Nic:I'm trying to practice just, like, saying it when it happens. Not like, oh, I immediately need to leave as soon as that happens, but just kind of like, acknowledging when I notice that energetic turn.
Like, it's almost like my energy, like. Like, it turns away from some. I don't. I think that's how it felt. Yeah. Like, I'm like, okay, I'm ready to, like.
I think, yeah, my energy is ready to, like, move to the bathroom or whatever.
Quinn:That's so cool. I, like. I want to honor that.
Nic:Also. Molly has a call in 12 minutes. So it might have been that.
Amalia:Do.
Quinn:We want to close, like, a Fun or weird 4, 6 experience that we've had, just like, a, like, real brief thing, or do we want to just close?
Amalia:I'm open to you closing with that, but my sacral has also left the building. Whoa.
Quinn:That's so cool. Holy. Okay. No, I'm.
Amalia:I'm.
Quinn:That's it for me.
Amalia:Oh, very fun. Yeah, we love y'. All.
Quinn:Oh, cool.
