Body Spirit Money Bridge ~ with Amalia and Eréndira

amalia: 00:01:59

Today's conversation is between me, Amalia, a 46 emotional generator with Aquarius Sun, Taurus Rising and Moon in Pisces and me.

erendira: 00:02:10

Erendira, a 5:2 emotional manifestor, Taurus sun, Leo Rising, Pisces Moon.

You can learn about our astrology and designs in the show notes and find even more about us and other collaborators@kelseyrosetort.com LovePartners Nurse.

amalia: 00:02:47

I'm not gonna give you a reading right now. That's not what's happening. But we were going to talk about like resources at one point in time.

And I think the other thing is like, yeah, just like having more space for you, for me to kind of like be with you in your creative identity stuff and what you're working on. And that was weeks and weeks ago. So. Yeah, yeah, but those are the things we've talked about before. We can also go somewhere else. I don't know.

But just to presence those I do.

erendira: 00:03:25

Always like talking about resource. I'm eating right now because I forget to feed my body and this I know. And then I'm like, oh yeah, need to feed my body.

amalia: 00:03:37

Totally.

erendira: 00:03:41

Yeah.

Well, we had that moment earlier today and we were going through the cards that Kelsey pulled at the beginning of our time together and so we had like a really nice little two on one reading and really felt that like Queen of Pentacles energy kind of settling.

amalia: 00:04:05

Yeah.

erendira: 00:04:09

Yeah. You know, I like I have been feeling through my trajectory with like my relationship with money over the last couple of years. And.

Yeah, I was thinking, I was thinking about, you know, we were talking about like the Taurus sun, like Pisces moon combination.

And I was like remembering just like part of the reason I think I leaned like so heavily into like the abstract and, and the etheric and like the spiritual is because like I like the environment that I was in. Like my body like wasn't like able to be recognized, you know.

Like I grew up in like a predominantly like white upper middle class, like socioeconomic background and well, not like, not my family but like the neighborhood that we lived in and those were my classmates and there was like a lot of affluence and you know, it was like a time in like, I want to say history but I don't know if that's like exaggerated an exaggeration, but it was a time where like people just didn't really talk about race. You know, we didn't talk about these like social like identity pieces.

And so, you know, like, if you were queer, if you were like non white, if you were, yeah, like trans, like you just those things, like you couldn't be those things because there it wasn't like in the collective consciousness in the way that it is now, you know. And. Yeah, so I was just thinking about like how I had to like in some ways like dissociate from my body.

amalia: 00:06:09

And.

erendira: 00:06:11

I couldn't, I couldn't inhabit my body fully because to inhabit my body fully, like it would have created too much like friction, you know. And being so young, it's like you try to protect yourself in any way that you can.

Try to stay safe because you need like, you need the village to care for you when you're like a little person, you know?

amalia: 00:06:36

Yeah.

erendira: 00:06:37

So anyway, I was just kind of like thinking about like how that break happened in myself and like I, I started to like really identify with like almost like this like removal from the world. And even though like it's impossible for me because I'm like, I'm always going to be this like materially bodied minded, you know, hearted human.

But it was like, it was too like I didn't know how to be in relationship with that and it was just easier to like float and yeah, like I. And then I was also just thinking about the relationship of like the solar plexus and Then, like, it felt like this. The solar.

Solar plexus feels like a bridge between, like, body and spirit. And I just never was taught how to, like, feel my feelings. And so, you know, you, like, shut off your emotions. You, like. Yeah, like, you.

You block the bridge. And so that, like, the bridge between, like, body and spirit, like material form and, like, abstract, like, it just. I couldn't cross.

I couldn't, like, make those two things meet. And yeah, I.

So I just, like, been thinking about this, like, process of, like, what have I, like, how have I, like, unblocked that bridge and when did that happen? And, yeah, I left kind of like my.

My previous life in: 2020

I didn't have a relationship with money in a way that, like, like, felt like I could charge for spiritual services. I. I actually think a lot of healers, spiritual practitioners maybe are in that space as well. But, yeah, I don't know. I just.

I've been on my own, like, money journey and God, it's just so much.

amalia: 00:09:00

Yeah.

erendira: 00:09:01

Yeah, so that's where. That's where I'm at.

Like, I was just thinking about, like, the Queen of pentacles and, like, wealth and an abundance and overflow and just, like, the fecundity of, like, this archetype and. And that it's, like, always around us. Like. Yeah, but, like, we. We don't. We have to, like, know how to be in relationship with it.

And sometimes that just takes a lot of undoing and time to get there. Let's run that.

amalia: 00:09:34

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, so. So many things just came through my head as you were talking, so I'm like, which one? Which thread? Well, maybe I'll name two of them.

I think one of the things was like, Just. I just really. Like, this is such a beautiful visual that you just.

I mean, it's more than a visual, but it was also a visual for me that you depicted of the solar plexus as the bridge between spirit and form. And then thinking about you, you know, you're describing being really disconnected from your body, and then.

And then you're talking about also being disconnected from money and how to charge. And I'm like, that feels apt. Like, if that bridge is whatever it is. Broken, not found. You know, numbed out. Whatever.

Whatever the relationship is to it. Like, the bridge isn't in use. Then it's like, it's also hard to cross that bridge to resource, too. At least in the worst. Money.

erendira: 00:10:45

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

amalia: 00:10:50

And, like. Yeah. Just thinking about, like, right in tarot, there is this relationship of, like.

Like, pentacles represents both form and materiality and resource and money. And so I think I'm curious if there's. If you lean into that, like, what comes up for you?

Are there other connections that float up around the connection between embodiment and money?

erendira: 00:11:17

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that was coming up for me, like, through collaboratories, like, I don't know, I was, like, really had a lot of community wounds, like, coming into the space, and I've got, like, you know, I'm, like, working through those.

amalia: 00:11:45

Mm.

erendira: 00:11:47

But I think I was feeling as I was, you know, feeling into joining this container. I was like, I don't.

I don't think I can understand money and, like, how to be in relationship to money and how to, like, you know, move money, be in this, like, giving, receiving, like, flowing, like. Yeah. Movement with money. Unless I'm, like, figuring that out with other people. Like, those things just felt, like, so tied up for me. And I. Yeah.

You know, like, It's like I. We were talking about this earlier, but, like, I just keep saying this phrase, like, body among bodies, and it's like, can't.

I can't know myself in some ways. I can't even resource myself unless.

And until I'm like, I've, like, put my body, like, with other bodies, and, like, maybe that even includes, like, the. The material, like, money body, you know?

amalia: 00:13:05

Yeah.

erendira: 00:13:05

I just think, like, those. All those all flow together, at least for me, and it's.

And so one of the things that felt really, really true, like, through collaboratory is, like, I actually, like, I need other people in order to be resourced. Like, I need. My creative work needs to be happening alongside others in order for me to be resourced.

Because, like, the last four years, I've been doing it all alone for the most part.

Like, I've had a couple collaborators here or there, but it's, like, felt so scary to work with other people because I've been like, well, what's the exchange here? Like, is it going to be equal? Is it going to be reciprocal? Is it going to be mutual and, like, collaboratory?

Like, it just helped me feel what that exchange can, like, like, how it can manifest in, like, beyond like the transaction, you know, so. Yeah, so I think, like, I'm taking that out. Like.

Like, that's something I'm taking with me as we're like, wrapping up collaboratory and into, like, my, you know, next experimentation is like, if I'm going to. If I'm gonna do something, like, it's gonna have to include other people in there with me.

And that's Feels so vulnerable, but also like, I. I don't know. At least for me, I'm like, I don't like money. I don't know. There's something there.

amalia: 00:14:30

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely lighting up for me. Like, I. Yeah, just really like this. This is opening. I don't even know if there. It's pre.

Verbal maybe still, but, like, there is something opening for me in this. Yeah. This, like, earthly money body resource realm. And thinking about. I mean, I came up in your reading and. And we've. We've talked about this.

Like, you've said this. That you. You're. You're in this moment of. This wide moment of, like, recognizing what you just said that you. Need to be around. Yeah. Body.

Body among bodies. Like, you, like, you need to do your work around other people.

But I think that there's like, this p. Like, you moving through the money work, like, around. Like, you need to, like, figure that out and, like, move through that around other people.

There's, like, something new opening up around that for me in this moment.

And it's reminding me of, like, Nick and Noah and Kelsey and I were in this separate chat around, you know, brainstorming what the next steps were for collaboratory. And this was before we kind of landed on, like, actually, we need to let collaboratory die and compost before planting new seeds.

But in that moment when we were talking about, like, where does it. Like, we. We had flown through, like, many different. I mean, really not flown, like, really swam and in some cases, almost drowned through.

Through different versions of, like, could it be this? Could it be that? Could it be this? Like, what ways could we be resourcing ourselves, asking for resource?

Like, is it asking up front or is it like a Dana model of. Of like, offering something and then being resourced after, you know, and is it as a group or like, which individual ways?

Like, we really were like, yeah, just like, in it and in the chat afterwards, there was. Yeah, I think just some kind of collective recognition of, like, yeah, this is hard because we. There aren't. It's. It's.

We're figuring it out, you know, like, we're We're. It's.

I think that it's humbling to me, and it's also validating that it's like, yeah, there isn't an obvious thing to do that we haven't been choosing. Like, we're. We're in world building right around money. And I think part of that is this bridging, continuing the bridge metaphor of, like.

And you've talked about, like, you talked about this on. On one of the manifester episodes. But, like, we're not in a completely new world, new 3D world in which, you know, money doesn't exist.

Although I have questions about sometimes. Maybe we'll get to those questions in this conversation. But. And.

And those questions relate to the second thing that I was thinking when I was like, can I choose a fork? And I'm always. This is always the way my brain works. I'm always, like, forking the road anyway.

Queen of Pentacles stuff of, like, pinning Queen of Pentacles. Is the other world actually closer than we think? But before getting there, I think. Yes. You've spoken to this piece about. Yeah, about. About the.

Like, we're in the middle. Like, we are dreaming of new realities, and we still need money to eat.

And in that middle space, I think figuring out the frameworks, like, trying out the frameworks, it's. It's murky.

erendira: 00:18:12

Yeah.

amalia: 00:18:14

And there was something I wanted to. I got lost in my fork in the roads, classically. Yeah. I think just this piece of, like.

Yeah, the figuring out that, like, you have to be with other bodies, you have to be with other earthly, material human beings to figure this out and try this out. Just. Yeah, that feels. That just feels alive.

erendira: 00:18:50

Yeah. It's actually, like. So Kelsey and I recorded a podcast last week. This week. I don't know when it was, but we were. We were talking about.

Well, they were talking about, like, the shift from, you know, the CrossFit planning to the cross of the Sleeping Phoenix.

amalia: 00:19:11

And.

erendira: 00:19:15

Kelsey was, you know, talking about how many. Like, the shift. Like, we were primarily in, like, a collective tribal heavy.

I don't know the numbers, but we're moving to, like, you know, fewer collective. In tribal, he's more like, individual.

And one of the things Kelsey said was, like, we're shifting from the individual serving the tribe and the collective to the collective and tribe serving the individual.

amalia: 00:19:48

And.

erendira: 00:19:50

ke, the shift from, like, the: 3740

amalia: 00:19:58

Yeah.

erendira: 00:19:59

To what? Like, we don't. We don't know because we're not there. Yet. And we're all just kind of, like, playing around, being like, is this. Is this it? Is this it?

But I. I think, like, what I'm, like, what I'm hearing is it's like, wondering of if. Like, I don't know if the thread to follow is, like, what's. Like, what's the form? What's the container for money? Like, what's.

You know, I think, like, the. The thread to follow is, like, we actually just have to understand the solar plexus.

Like, we have to understand the emotions because, like, that's the bridge.

amalia: 00:20:48

Like.

erendira: 00:20:49

Like, that's. Like, that's the. That's the media, you know, like, that's the way. Okay, so, like, the more that we follow that. Yeah, keep going.

amalia: 00:21:02

Yeah. No, I just want to. I'm like, okay. That made me be like, whoa. Like fireworks. But also, I need you to. Can you. Can you say more words?

erendira: 00:21:10

Yeah, I think. Okay, so let me see if I can follow what my brain is doing.

amalia: 00:21:18

I love whatever it's doing.

erendira: 00:21:27

When we think about, like, when we're trying to figure out, quote, unquote, like, how do we make money or, like, how do we be in relationship to money or how do we receive money? Like, that's. That's a mental game. And, Like, the way. I don't know.

I guess I'm feeling, like, the way, at least for me as an emotional being, like, the way that I, like, find my way into that relationship is actually, like, it's not through. Like, oh, like, what's the strategy? Like, what's the form? Like, what's. It's like. No, like, I just have to keep trusting my body.

I have to keep trusting my emotions. I have to keep, like, trusting that process. It's like, if I can't see.

If I can't see it right now, then, like, maybe it's not meant to be for right now. You know, if I can't access the resource right now.

Like, I, like, saw this quote yesterday or the day before is like Toni Morrison talking about writer's block. And Tony was like, if you have writer's block, like, you're actually not meant to push through the block.

Like, the block is there because, like, you're just not meant to be writing right now. Like, you're not meant to, like, bulldoze your way through the block, because the block is trying to show you something.

amalia: 00:23:06

That's gorgeous. Yeah, that's, like. That just resonates with chills for me. That feels so fucking true. Yeah. And I mean, I think that that feels like design work to me.

Like, that feels like what I love about human design is like, trust. It's like lessons for the mind and how to trust your body. And that means trusting when there are blocks, that means trusting resistance.

It's like trusting the. It's like lessons for the mind and how to trust the body to move and flow with energy instead of fighting with energy.

Like, there's a map that's constantly in motion and. And human design feels like how to. How to read the map, because it's not in verbal English. It's like the. The.

Like, the how to read the map is like bodies. Bodies can read the map, so we have to learn how to read our bodies.

And I think this piece from Toni Morrison feels like so much of, like, the block is. Is one of the. Is. Is the body saying, not this way, not this way, not this way right now.

But yeah, I think this piece that you're talking about, that's, like, in relationship to resource, I think. Yeah. I mean, I feel like what I was thinking as you were talking through, I said say more words about the solar plexus is like, it's not a.

You were saying, you know, mental game is figure out how do we pay eight people? You know, what's the container look like? What's the. Whatever it is, you know. And so then as you were talking, I was like, is it.

Is the question actually, is the solar plexus question. How do we feel resourced? Like, what does it feel like to be resourced? Does that feel resonant for you?

erendira: 00:25:16

It does. I do. I think that's a big part of it. I think I'm, You know, I say here, Like, referencing back to, like, trust is the resource.

Yeah, like, trust is the resource. And then we get, like, back into that dance of, like.

amalia: 00:25:42

Yes.

erendira: 00:25:42

And we also need money to, like, live in this, like, 3D world. And so, yeah, like, I. I wonder if, like, that's. If there's like a dance there. Like, I. I want to say, like, absolutely true. Trust is the resource.

And. I also, like, I have, like, two images coming to me right now. Like, the first, I was. I was thinking about, like, I was in the shower.

I was thinking about Pisces Moon and how I experience. Sometimes I experience the water imagery of a Pisces moon is mist or fog. Yes, absolutely. Ocean depths.

But sometimes I also experience it as it's all around me. And I can always see, but I know that it's like. And then, like, if you're, like, looking at a cloud too.

You know, you're like, you can see it, but you can't see it. And it's like you can, you can't touch it, but you know it's there. Like, you can feel it on your body, but you can't, like, hold it with your hands.

And so there's like that image and then there's like the other image that was coming through from are like, reflection of the tarot cards this morning. And that feeling of it was pulling the Queen of Pentacles towards myself. She's out there in the future, but she's also here in the present.

I am her both then and now. And so I don't have to work to access the physical, like, you know, like the material resource that I need because it's already with me.

I just can't see it or touch it in the way that I'm expecting to. It almost feels like I'm pulling her through that mist and it's like, or she is the mist or something, you know, like, it's, yeah, it's like, I.

amalia: 00:28:21

Mean, when you said the piece you said in the cloud, I can't hold it, but it's touching my body and I was like, like, that's resource.

Like, to me, that's the, like, okay, this is the piece that I was like my like, classic verbal thing where I'm like the second thing and then I start with the first thing and it just like, leads me into the second thing. And the second thing being this part where I'm like, I don't know so much of the Queen of Pentacles to me. Like, it's not the Queen of money.

Like, money is one form of resource of 1, 1 form of abundance. And like, I think that the trick, I mean, we will see what happens in these years as Sleeping Phoenix descends like a cloud.

But I think, you know, I think there is already, like, it's like, it's. Yeah, there's just this. I think the thing with abundance is the sense of, like, it's already here.

Like, you're saying with the card, it's like it's already here. It's about tuning into how it's already here. And I just have this wondering and it's sticky to talk about for obvious reasons, with money and class.

erendira: 00:29:32

Yeah.

amalia: 00:29:33

But I, I, I, like, have to venture out loud to wonder, like, are there ways where it's like, you are alive right now. You don't have money. You being the many you that don't have money, what do you have? Like, what other Ways are you.

Like, that just feels like that cloud, you know, that. That feels like the. Like, you don't have the thing you can hold, the money that you can hold.

erendira: 00:30:01

Right.

amalia: 00:30:01

What's touching. Right. What's touching you right now? What earthly body among bodies thing is touching you right now?

And that also feels like the wisdom of Queen of Pentacles. Like, Queen of Pentacles feels like the ability to attune to what is touching you in this moment.

erendira: 00:30:22

Yeah.

amalia: 00:30:22

And I feel like there's a teaching there of the attuning to. If I'm reaching for money and money is not coming, if there's a block there, like, what do I not need to reach for? Like.

Like, that feels like the motion. Like, that feels like the motion of reattuning to, like. Like, that feels like how we bring in the world.

erendira: 00:30:43

Yeah.

amalia: 00:30:43

Where we don't. We're not so focused on money, and money isn't the way that we eat and sleep and everything else we do.

Like, it's by noticing what's already here, what's already touching us. Like, what do we not need to reach for? Like, I just feel like that's the stuff that holds. Like, that's this. That's the, like, the not block.

You know, it's like, you don't move through the block. You move. You move towards what's already here, what's pulling you.

erendira: 00:31:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I don't know where I'm going with this. Well, I just. So, yes. As I've been on this, like, money journey.

amalia: 00:32:00

And.

erendira: 00:32:03

You know, I'm. How would I say this when I look back on, like, the last five years?

rs ago is, like, the start of: 2020

So I want to do two things, like, financially low, abundantly resourced. So, you know, like, I have been on, you know, like, SNAP benefits for the last number of years, Medicaid. And I really had to, like.

I think for me, it's like. So I guess what I'm trying to say is, like, everything has been right. Like, no part of it has felt like.

It's like, because I've been trusting my body. I'm like, yeah, everything's tracking. And I think for me, like, I really needed you know, personal view.

I needed to experience, like, what does it feel like to, like, think that you've touched the bottom? You know, like, what does it feel like to. To hold the shame. Not hold the shame.

Like, realize that the shame is like an illusion around, like, needing help. Like, needing assistance.

Like, I needed to feel, in some ways, like, I needed to feel the impact of, like, when we rely on, like, the government to, like, support us, like, what happens when that gets taken away? Like, this experience last month, you know, like, at this moment, all of a sudden, like, oh, I'm not going to get my benefits.

Like, what does that mean?

You know, and like, reaching out to, like, a mutual aid group and, like, asking for support and, you know, like, working through, like, that is not a shameful thing to do. Like, that, like, is actually, like, yeah, you're actually, like, relying, like, on other humans.

Like, you're relying on this, like, mycelial network. And it's like, I needed to experience that.

I needed to experience, like, feeling the distance between myself and, like, people in my everyday community. And like, the ways that when you haven't touched the bottom, there's like.

amalia: 00:35:16

You.

erendira: 00:35:16

Know, there's this like, oh, those. You know, like, even, like, we gotta support. We gotta, like, donate food.

And it's like you're like, oh, but you haven't actually, like, lived what it feels like to not have the money, you know, Like, I guess I. I just, like, I say all of that.

Cause I'm like, yeah, I think it was really, really important for me to know, like, the spectrum of, like, the experience of, like, having and not having this thing that the world tells us is so important. And I'm have like, reached a point in my money journey where I'm like, okay, well, I.

Now I just, like, want to play with, like, having a lot and seeing what that feels like, you know, and like, what does it look like without, you know, the binary of good or bad just saying, like, okay, like, what happens to me when I hold that much, When I can hold a lot of money, which has been like, a real reframing for, like, how I'm gonna, like, doing my work in this, like, next season? Um, so anyway, I just. I think even, like, the conversation of like, like, resource for me has been, like. It's just been a playground.

And it's like, it's not real, but it's like, teaching me something about, like, what is.

What does it look like to like, be a human in society, you know, like, what does it look like to, like, move through Fear, you know, like, what does it look like to, like, all the number of things that. That, like. Yeah, I don't know where I'm going with that, but I just. And again, I don't think that, like, my journey of, like, this.

This money, it's like my journey as like a 5, 2 emotional manifester with, like, personal view and innocence motivation. It's like, I just want to play. I just want to see what the experience is.

And like, that emotional trip is actually like, what's gonna help me help the collective that is going to help be another bridge between the material and the spiritual. And I actually feel really excited for that to be part of my next learning and journey. Yeah.

amalia: 00:37:44

Yeah. I mean, I really heard this, like, beautiful strange. There's like a beautiful strangeness of. Of the solar plexus, like, as a, like, bridge to money.

And I heard that as you were talking about, like, you needed this experience to bring you through the lows of. Of. I don't know if, like, I don't know what word feels right for you. Is it poverty or. Yeah, you know, but like, this experience of lack, I think.

Yeah, I'm just. I'm just like, hearing the presence of the emotional wave in that too.

erendira: 00:38:24

Yeah, I hadn't put that together.

amalia: 00:38:26

Yeah.

erendira: 00:38:27

Yeah.

amalia: 00:38:27

And. And also thinking about.

I don't know what I was thinking about as you were moving through, that was just the ways that, like, attuning to this cloud that's touching you, but that you can't hold. And if the cloud is resource and this is maybe departing a little bit from where you landed.

So I want to acknowledge that, like, this isn't me saying, don't go play with having a bunch of money to hold right now. But I was just like.

What I was thinking was like, yeah, you know, for you, what you named, like, some of the wisdom that that low brought you was moving through fear and shame, learning what that was like. And what I was thinking is like, yeah, it will bring you closer to the things you can touch if it's not money.

So if that's like living with your family or that's relying on the mutual aid network or. Or your neighbors.

And the thing that was coming up for me, this was interesting, was like, I was thinking about, you know, during the pandemic, everyone started baking bread. My. My ex, my partner at the time, she was talking about how she had been a baker and also is at a college with many things.

And she was talking about how, like, this is this interesting thing that we in the midst of the cross of planning did during the pandemic, the weeds that decided to start baking bread. You know, she was like, this is not the way that the village actually oriented. Like, you had a baker bake bread. Like, this is not actually.

It's like, yeah, great, you're making your own food. But, like, now the energy cost of every single person's oven being on.

On the same block, like, there was just this, like, element of, like, you know, like, yes, we're, like, playing with this thing of, like, oh, now I'm a villager that makes my own bread, you know, but it's like, you know, like, oh, now I'm not buying bread. Like, great end to materialism. But also everyone's oven is on.

Like, there's just the element of, like, missing something, you know, and that's just what kind of came to mind to me, this feeling of, like, what would it be to be like, I have to talk to my neighbor now? Because all of us need to get, you know, like.

I'm very, like, I've got the: 3740

I'm not trying to be, like, sleeping Phoenix means that we all bake each other's bread, you know, or whatever, like, and get more tribal. But I do think there's just, like, something there of, like. Yeah, I don't know. There's something there that wanted to come out.

erendira: 00:41:12

Yeah, I think I hear it, but, yeah, I'm like, can't.

amalia: 00:41:20

You can't touch.

erendira: 00:41:21

Like. Yeah, it's something about, like, the individual, but I don't know.

amalia: 00:41:29

Yeah, Yeah. I think that.

I think, like, what it feels like to me is, like, the awkwardness, that, like, clumsiness of being in between these two eras and, like, scrambling to be like, oh, this is what abundance feels like. And being like. I don't. I think we're still like, that. That's just, you know, like, there's still something. Yeah, I think there's still evolution to.

To unfold and. Yeah, I think maybe a scrambling at. Like, there's something about the bread thing that feels like the scrambling for.

There's, like, this thing for me that's, like, reaching for something in the new era that is a relic of the old era. Doesn't feel like it's not gonna feel like new. It's Gonna still feel like scarcity. And I think that's the thing that the bread thing reminds me of.

Like, your energy costs are still going to go so much up that you're like, I'm not saving money yet. And that's because you're using individual frameworks from the old era in that story.

Maybe that's my attempt at kind of knitting that together at least.

erendira: 00:42:51

Yeah, I'm going to have to sit with that one because I think. I think that one's going to need some time.

amalia: 00:42:58

Yeah. Yeah.

erendira: 00:42:59

Unravel. It did make me think about, like. Like bread as, like, the. The archetype for, like, nourishing and nourishment.

amalia: 00:43:12

Yeah.

erendira: 00:43:12

And like, Yeah, I guess I'm like, wondering of, like, okay, well, what's on the other side of this, like, resource conversation? Right? Like, why. Why do we even, like, want or need resource? And I. I'm feeling like in this moment of, like, well, it's for nourishment.

Like, there's like, some nourishing component, you know, of like. Yeah. Like.

amalia: 00:43:54

Yeah. Like, if that's the question, like, yeah, how do I feel? Solar plexus nourished? What do I need to feel nourished? And do I have it already or could I.

erendira: 00:44:11

Yeah, yeah, there's something there, but I'm going to let it go. It's like, I can feel my open up trying to, like, totally, totally to go there. I'm curious.

hat you want to say about the: 3740

amalia: 00:44:26

Well, okay. Thank you. Yeah. The. The thing that I want to.

I don't know if this feels alive for you still, but now, months ago, when we first were, like, oh, there's. There's stuff to do here. Had to do with my 37 to 40 and, like, you asking for a reading and shame came up.

And so I'm, like, wondering if that feels like, is there anything fertile there? Like, should we bring that in?

erendira: 00:44:50

Yeah, I think we can definitely bring that in.

amalia: 00:44:55

Yeah, it was.

erendira: 00:44:55

It felt so, like.

amalia: 00:44:57

Yeah, it was tender.

erendira: 00:45:00

It was really tender. Yeah. Like, yeah. So, like, we can kind of set a little bit more of a stage.

So what happened was you did, like, a 511 reading for each person in collaboratory, and I think that was, like, really our, like, yours and mine's, like, first interaction.

And I just remember, like, sitting there as you were, like, reading my chart and just, like, being like, I just, like, love the way that this person, one, just, like, reads a chart, but, like, two, like, is reading me and. Yeah, so then. And I have questions just, you know, around my, like, angles always. I was like, oh, like, I wonder, like, what.

I wonder, like, what Amalia would see. And so I. I reached out to you and I, you know, was like, hey, like, I am, like, I don't have a lot of. I don't even know if I said the.

amalia: 00:46:10

Yeah, you didn't say it up.

erendira: 00:46:11

No.

amalia: 00:46:11

Yeah.

erendira: 00:46:12

No. Yeah. So I think I just said, would you be up for a trade? And. And it was. I remember feeling like this feels.

This feels like the right ask, but I don't know, like, what I'm going to get back, you know? And then you responded and you were like, I would love to do that, but I'm, you know, I'm in my own process. And I, like, would like to get paid.

Like, I would like to receive actual, like, physical money. Actual whatever we mean by physical.

amalia: 00:46:49

And.

erendira: 00:46:51

Oh, yeah. And I remember that, like, receiving that and just being like. I, like, I was like, I can't pay Malia. Like, I don't know what.

I don't know what to do with that. I think it took me like, a whole, like, maybe a week and a half to respond to you just because I felt. Yeah.

Like, I just felt shame around, like, not having the resource. And it wasn't even about you. It was about me. Right.

It was like, like, I don't have the money that I quote, unquote, need or want to be able to access, like, the tools that I think would be, like, beneficial to me. And I'm like, how do I say that to a stranger?

amalia: 00:47:37

Yeah. Yeah.

erendira: 00:47:38

And. But I went ahead and I did it and I ended up just, like, crying on the. It was like a 10 minute voice note. Crying to keep on my journey of.

Like, I, Like, I totally. I think that's valid. Like, I think your ask is, like, totally, like, you deserve that and I can't. I can't give you that.

So does, you know, almost like, is that make me, like, undeserving, like, recognizing, like, your worth and my inability to meet your worth, does that make me, like, worthless? Yeah, I don't think that's true. But, like, those were, like, definitely the feelings that were coming up in that moment.

And then I think, like, there's also, like, we just have so much shame around that. And we never, like, speak it out loud and we never allow it to transmute. We never allow it to alchemize, you know?

And like, when I said that to you, like, you met me with so much, like, compassion and, like, Tenderness. And. Yeah, like, you were like, okay, like. Like, let's just experiment then. Like, and we don't even have to experiment that.

Like, let's just experiment being in a relationship and, like, see what happens just from, like, choosing to, like.

amalia: 00:48:59

Yeah.

erendira: 00:49:00

Be in relation to each other. And, like, yeah, that just. I think that was, like, such a big, big piece of this for me.

amalia: 00:49:17

It's so sweet to hear your. Like, to hear you tell that story. Yeah. I think, like, to fill in some pieces from my end. I am a former therapist in recovery, and.

over folding. And yeah, this: 3740

Like, don't end up feeling like the. The. The, like, precision of energetic exchange is, like, so tight. And it had been doming me for years, and I'm so.

I'm, like, really trying to get in line. Just today I, like, said that, you know, like, I'm doing.

m like, I am a student of the: 3740

Yeah, so I think there's just this sense of, like, yes.

What was going on on my end being, like, I feel really scared of starting a whole new and, like, opening into this whole new field and burning out again. And burning out in this way that I'm just sort of, like, mired in frustration and, like, relational resentment and, like, stress and.

And also, like, burning. Burning the edges of, like, material that I love to work with, you know?

erendira: 00:51:11

Yeah. Yeah.

amalia: 00:51:13

And. Yeah, so I think that was, like, what was going on for me of being, like, cool. I like, there.

There has to be an exchange that feels right, and I don't think it has to be money. Um, and, like, yeah, like, I'm not trying to be. Trade forward with this. Like, I am trying, like, right as I.

erendira: 00:51:36

It's a business.

amalia: 00:51:37

Yeah. Yeah. And so. And that's also curious for me. Like, I'm also like, why does it need, like, why is that true?

I think maybe there are some easy answers to that that are just, like, simplicity. But I think there. It's like, there is maybe. Maybe stuff to explore there. Um.

But I know that, like, when you offered that, I was like, okay, well, this feels clear that I'm not going to be like, well, that I'm not giving you a reading. Like, that's not. Like, there's that, like, wasn't my answer, but it was like, let's tread carefully and let's, like, explore together and see. Yeah.

Like, I think, you know, I don't know if this is part of this conversation, but, like, it's here. Like, I think there is something for me that has happened so.

erendira: 00:52:21

So often.

amalia: 00:52:22

I've had so many different jobs. Um, I worked at so many different things, and most of them have been kind of ruined for me when I've worked in them. And I think that's.

I don't think that's because I, like.

I mean, I think there's probably multiple things, but one thing that feels clear is that, like, all of the ways I worked under capitalism have been exploitative, because that's what capitalism is.

but certainly with me and my: 3740

And it, like, literally, when I look back at, like, all of the things that I've been exploited, like, through about four, maybe four, is the proposition there in my life. Like, there are very few of them that I have come back to, like, yet, you know, I'm trying for a lot of them.

Like, some of it is, like, my actual life force.

And, like, that has been years of me trying to, like, rekindle my life force after it being so deeply exploited, you know, like, my sexuality, like, just, like, deep parts of my physical body. And yeah, with being a therapist, it was so brutal because I was like, this is me relating to human beings. Like, I'm so here for relationship.

And now I don't want to. Like, I don't know how to relate to people. Like, it was just like, yeah.

So I think there is something here of, like, yeah, I feel very careful about being like, I. Like, we're getting. I'm getting closer and closer to, like, trying to resource myself to be myself, like, as myself.

Like, trying to get paid to be myself. Like, that was also part of leaving therapy was like, I don't feel like I can be whole enough and I cannot be.

I can't be paid for being a fraction of myself. Like, this is destroying me.

And there's also, like, so there's like, something beautiful and liberating about being, like, I'm stepping into this work that feels like I'm trying to just be myself and be resourced to be myself and, like, offer the gifts that you receive from me, being myself with you and, like, shining my selfness on you with you. And there's like, something so core about that of being like, listen, I was a bike mechanic once. I don't do that anymore.

That's like, the world's fine. You know, I'm fine not doing that. Like, I'm not going to be fine if I don't get to, like, be myself anymore.

And I don't know if that's, like, I don't know if we follow that through, if that's even. I don't know what that would mean, but I think there's fear around that for sure. And. Yeah.

So I think, okay, like, walking my way back, the reason I started bringing this up is because I think in the.

Yeah, like, one of the things that has happened in these various jobs I've done is, like, once I start getting paid for them, I don't want to do them and not get paid. Like, I remember, like.

Like, when I was a bike mechanic, I started that job, like, that was, like, a community bike center that I actually really respect and love in Chicago. And I used to volunteer there and, like, be more part of the community there.

And then once I started working there, there was dynamics that I'm obviously not going to get into that I think were like, I'm not saying this is, like, a flaw of me, but I think what happened was, like, once I started working there, I didn't want to volunteer anymore. I didn't really want to do anything that I wasn't going to. Like, it was like, if I was asked for something, I was like, am I on the clock or not?

And I do like that.

And, like, yeah, already I'm, like, noticing that happening now with, like, readings where I'm, like, a lot less, like, you know, friends are like, oh, you do this cool. And I'm like, pay me. Like, you know, And I think there's, like, there is this line of being like, I don't know.

I've never been a fan of the whole, like. Like, labor as this, like, talking point, buzzword thing. Because I'm kind of like, what happened to labors of love?

And also, also, also, I could go on a whole thing, but I think, like, there is something. Yeah, I just.

I noticed that about myself, and I think, yeah, I noticed already Me being a little bit more closed off and being like, now that this is my, like, quote, unquote, I don't know, whatever. I don't even want to say professional career, but, like, I'm. Now that I'm, like, trying to make like this.

This is the way that I'm trying to resource myself and pay my rent, I'm being a little bit more, like, rigid, maybe, about where it comes into play. And I. I'm like, I don't like that feeling. And. And I think I'm bringing it up because I think in our exchange, that felt related.

Like, that feels related to our work. Like, our exchange is meaning, like, trade.

And, like, even in what you offered as a trade, I was like, I think I was trying to manage you a little bit.

Not intentionally, but, like, I think that, like, I was like, well, wait, you were offering to be this way, that I'm like, wouldn't you be that way anyway? In collaboratory, I don't want it to have to be, you know, like, there was just.

Yeah, I think I. I won't go any more into the specifics, but I think, like, this is the material that came up, and it just. Also, I'm like. Also, I'm like, how does this all work in this, in a liberated world, you know?

erendira: 00:57:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

amalia: 00:57:50

That's.

erendira: 00:57:51

Yeah, that's interesting. I think. You're right, because you were like, this is. Aren't you just gonna be this way collaboratory? And I was like, no, no, actually, I'm not.

Like, I'm not going to do the things that I do to get paid. Like, I don't. I don't. Just, like, I. I will be me. And, like, it is impossible for me to not be me and, like, the work that I do with my clients. But.

And so, like, I'm showing up in this space as me, but, like, the work that I do is actually. It's, like, a very specific thing.

amalia: 00:58:28

Thing.

erendira: 00:58:29

And it requires, you know, like, me being in a particular, like, posture. So anyway, all that to say is, like, yeah, there's this, like, blurring of, like, self and, like, vocation and, like, transaction and.

And, like, yeah, we just don't know. We just don't know what it is yet. Right. Like we were saying, it's like, we're. We're like, in the hinge. We're crossing the bridge.

And so it's like, well, that's, like, a little bit of the old and a little bit of the new. And, like, some of that feels good and. Right. Some of it doesn't. But I don't know how or why yet.

So it's like we just got to keep moving through the feelings of it all and like just trusting that the clarity that's needed for you, right. It's going to be individual. Like the clarity that you need around it is going to be different than the clarity that I come to.

Like, you are, like, you are per your design, going to need a particular kind of exchange that I. I don't need that, you know?

amalia: 00:59:42

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I. I was just thinking. I'm like, it just obviously comes back to strategy and authority.

Like, I don't think there is a rule that I can come. Like, I don't want to be looking for rules about right when I charge, when I don't. But it is.

It's hard to just like, it's hard to explain that to people. And Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to just keep learning through my own bodies saying yes to some things and maybe and no to others.

Like, I, I do think that the like, the path will like, like he, like meaning will unfold in terms of. Yeah. New ways of like. I mean, what is the like exchange without transaction or something like that, you know.

erendira: 01:00:36

I think also though, is this like, is a. Is the idea of time. You know, I think we, we ext. Live in a world where like the exchange is meant to happen like, like in the moment. Right.

Like, I give you this now, you give me this now. And so now we're like matched up and even. And Yeah, I guess I'm like wondering like if we're choosing this way.

Like, we're actually like express expanding the timeline of like when that exchange is gonna happen. Right. Like, and I told you like in our exchange, I'm like, there's no timeline on this. Like, we like.

And even still, like we did our quote unquote, like where I supported you a couple of weeks ago and I'm just like, yeah, we will get to that when we get to it.

Like when your body says it's time for me and my body says it's time for me, like, then we'll do the next part and it, it's like not time bound in the way that like capitalism needs things to be. Time bound.

amalia: 01:01:43

Yeah. Thank you so much for that. That's so grounding. That's it. Like, that just truly.

me feel into the way that my: 3740

Like, I'm thinking about being asked to do a reiki session recently. That was a no for me, which often that is a yes. And it has been for. For no money. No. What? You know, but like, there was like a no.

And I think it was like, because of the quality of what that relationship was feeling like, and not even as like a. Like, it wasn't a tit for tat thing. It was just like a knowing in my body that was like, this is not like the amount of energetic.

Like, the energetic reciprocity of that would not land correctly for me.

erendira: 01:02:35

Yeah.

amalia: 01:02:38

Yeah. And that being about a lot more than that particular moment in time, which does. I think there's like.

Yeah, to me, there's something there that brings us back to earlier in the conversation around. Yeah. I don't know, mutual. Like, for me at least, like, mutual aid and like, supporting each other.

ant and like, relevant to the: 3740

erendira: 01:03:18

Yeah, yeah. Also was like, like the nourishing word was coming back. Like.

amalia: 01:03:24

Yes.

erendira: 01:03:25

Yeah, that. Like, there has to be like a nourishing. Like, there has to be some nourishment, like in. In the ask or in the. You know.

amalia: 01:03:38

Totally.

erendira: 01:03:39

Yeah.

amalia: 01:03:40

That's the thing that makes it. That's like. That feels brilliant to me. Like, I'm like, that's the thing that. That's what makes it not transaction is that this is a thing.

Like, instead of it being like, you give me this, I give you this. It's like, let's seek things that feed us both. And like, maybe that's one loaf of bread.

erendira: 01:04:03

Exactly.

amalia: 01:04:04

Maybe that's a reading that I quote, unquote, give you. Maybe that's a consultation that you give me, you know, but like, it's. It's like, how can the thing feed us both? Maybe.

Maybe the thing is one thing, like a bread. And maybe the thing is an exchange. Like, I give you a thing and you give me a thing, but it's like, yeah, there's something that.

That just like clicked into place for me. That's like, that's why there's no rules. It's just like the thing, the exchange itself needs to be nourishing and that. Yeah.

And that can look a hundred different ways. It can look a thousand different ways.

erendira: 01:04:38

Right. It feels good to me.

amalia: 01:04:48

Yeah. I think that feels like it.

erendira: 01:04:54

All right.

amalia: 01:04:57

Nourishment. You can look a thousand different things.